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Vantage vs. Summit

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jtwrace

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Hello to all,

I am new to this site but not to ML. I currently own a pair of Questz. I am going to replace them. Any thoughts on Vantage vs. Summit? I will have a pair of Summits the question is do I get pair of Vantages first then Summits. Last, are the Summits that much different in sound? Thoughts???

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kirkawall

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Hi,

Room size is a factor here -- in a smaller room I'd think the Vantages might be the better choice. If you can, why not audition both in your space?

k
 

Reverb

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kirkawall said:
Hi,

Room size is a factor here -- in a smaller room I'd think the Vantages might be the better choice. If you can, why not audition both in your space?

k
Even in a small room I would still take the summits over the vantages, only acoustic panels and tub traps would not be an option it would be a requirement.
 

Joey_V

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I would go Summits if you dont mind the extra cost. The Summits fill the center better in my opinion. The center fill is more realistic from my experience, better articulation of the upper bass frequencies as the panel is able to drop to 270hz... not to mention the much better lowend torque the 4-10" woofers wrestles - couple that with the dual 25/50hz eq.... and wow. The perfect speaker.
 

Matten Logan

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You know, The Summit is definately the beter speaker. But after I've listened to both, the vantage in preformance is about 75% sonicaly of the summit. If I had the dough, the summit would be it, but if budget concious is the key, you cant be dissapointed with the vantage.
 

sleepysurf

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Don't forget the importance of room acoustics! If on a limited budget, the $$ difference between the two might be better spent on acoustic treatments and/or better components. Having just blown my budget on Summits, I'm now stuck with inferior acoustics and little $$ for major fixes.
 

jtwrace

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All valid points. The only problem with listening to both is that there are no dealers that have both. They only have the Vantage. Whick I listened to but they are using not the best front end equipment.

Also, will there be a huge diffrence in Vantage vs. Quest Z???

That is the question....
 

kirkawall

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jtwrace said:
All valid points. The only problem with listening to both is that there are no dealers that have both. They only have the Vantage. Whick I listened to but they are using not the best front end equipment.

Also, will there be a huge diffrence in Vantage vs. Quest Z???

That is the question....
Hi,

At me dealer's -- yes, there was a very noticeable difference between Aeons, Quests and Vantages. They all sounded more like each other than any of them did to a dynamic speaker, but I much preferred the Vantages. More warmth, air and presence than the Aeons or Quests, though this was in my dealer's smallish room. If you can home-demo the Vantages, do it. There is a HUGE difference in a broken-in pair, in my experience, particularly in the bass. I have not doubt that the Summits are the superior speaker all things being equal -- they're twice the price. But the Vantages are special, I think. They have tons of resolution, do everything well and have a real magic with voices I've never heard from other speakers. There's a recent review in one of the UK mags (Hi-Fi Choice?) that makes this point better than I can; basically, the reviewer feels that some will prefer the Vantages even in a large space: "some may even prefer the new model on a straight comparison, even taking no account of price or size."

good luck,


k
 

edwinr

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I tried the Vantages at home before buying the Summits. I was very impressed with the Vantages and the had all the power and resolution anyone could reasonably want. Then I tried the Summits. At first I wasn't too sure about them. They needed more care in setting up and much more running in. They also needed a bigger room - so I moved them. They are are a larger speaker, so you would expect that. The Summits also demanded a change in amplifers to reap the reqards they had kept hidden from me. It's taken a little while, but the Summits have blossomed into probably one of the best speakers I've heard. I have since heard the Vantages again. They still sound great. BUT the Summits do offer a much bigger sound for those that want it.

Now in reference to the suggestion that the Summits are only a little larger than the Vantages - that's probably misleading. The clever styling of the Summits conceal the true size. They are a fairly large speaker to move around and there's a fair bit more weight too. So the Summit is definitely a big room speaker.

In smaller rooms it may by harder to distinguish between the sound quality of the Vantage and the Summit. Some say the Vantage offers close to 90% of the Summit's sound quality. I actually agree with that observation - in smaller rooms only!

Now in the world of High End audio - people pay many big $$$$$ to obtain 5% to 10% improvement im sound quality. The question is... is it worth paying twice the price for maybe 10% to 25% improvement in sound quality, depending on room size. Only YOU can answer that. I already answered my own question and I bought the Summits. Do I regret it? No!

Buy the Summits if you can afford it. But if you buy the Vantages, you're not getting an inferior product, it's just that when you push the Vantages, they will hit the wall before the Summits will. I haven't found the wall with the Summits yet. Believe me I've tried. And this is from a former Klipschorn owner! :eek:
 

Joey_V

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I had the Vantages before and I upped to the Summits. The Summits give you realism and fool you into thinking that you arent listening to speakers no longer. With the Vantages, I always found myself completely toeing them in because their horizontal dispersion isnt too great given the much smaller panel. It's much more than just small room vs big room... the Summits can play in an 8x8 closet if need be IMO. The Summits are not THAT much bigger than the Vantages. They have a panel that works much harder though and woofers that concentrate more in lower frequencies as opposed to trying to reproduce the fundamental frequencies of a guitar or a baritone voice.

This is the same reason why the CLX should be better than the Summit... a complete panel reproducing as much of the frequency band.

 
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Rich

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Joey_V said:
This is the same reason why the CLX should be better than the Summit... a complete panel reproducing as much of the frequency band.
My thoughts exactly. I was getting close to making the upgrade to the Summit, but now I think I will just be patient and wait to see what the CLX has to offer. And just for the record, I despise being patient.
 

sleepysurf

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I agree. The new CLX may prove to be the most IDEAL design yet, plus you get the added flexibility of deciding where best to place the Descent i. Maybe I'll put *MY* Summits back on A'gon (just kidding). ;)
 

Joey_V

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sleepysurf said:
I agree. The new CLX may prove to be the most IDEAL design yet, plus you get the added flexibility of deciding where best to place the Descent i. Maybe I'll put *MY* Summits back on A'gon (just kidding). ;)
I have yet to see the CLX design... if it truly is killer, then WOW. But I'm suspecting it'll be big and this doesnt bode well for me. I cant have something the size of the original CLS.

Though even if the Summit is outclassed (which I hope doesnt happen since I love the Summits too much), I hope it's not by too much.

Joey :(

Edit:
I will add that merely having a panel do most of the frequency range does not automatically make a speaker better. However, in this context, with the similar technologies used in the ML speakers (xstat for example) and the similar design teams on the project... it's suffice to say that the current generation CLX will probably be better for 2 ch listening than the mighty Summit.

This is not to say that a full range stat from another company is better than the Summit on the mere premise of having more of the frequency band covered. Design always plays a pivotal role.
 
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jtwrace

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Clx???

Thanks for all the replys. CLX? Is this the replacement for the Summit? When will it be out and what will the size be? How much $$$$? etc....
 

DrJRapp

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Joey_V said:
Though even if the Summit is outclassed (which I hope doesnt happen since I love the Summits too much), I hope it's not by too much.
I think it probably is possible to develop a full range panel, but I have my serious doubts that it will be able to produce the visceral low end power or dynamics of the Summit. If anything it will be a specialty speaker designed to work with a separate sub, not unlike the Statement in concept.
 

Joey_V

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jtwrace said:
Thanks for all the replys. CLX? Is this the replacement for the Summit? When will it be out and what will the size be? How much $$$$? etc....
Not a Summit replacement... but an addition to the already stellar ML ESL line. As Jerry said above, it'll probably be a specialty speaker.

And it'll probably be expensive.
 

roberto

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jtwrace said:
Thanks for all the replys. CLX? Is this the replacement for the Summit? When will it be out and what will the size be? How much $$$$? etc....
Hola chicos...I don´t think that the CLX would be a replacement for the Summits...they will be as another great sounding alternative of ML products. The price tag, (this is only my appreciation and not necessary the truth) would be around the $ 7.500, filling the gap between the Vantage and the Summits. My CLSs are the best speakers for 2 ch. and for music only...and music with not too much heavy bass energy. The coherence of a full range panel is unmatch by any other kind of speaker, even ML. If you set your CLSs right with your room, then there will be no need for a sub, for music reproduction...watch the Joey´s table...and also you will find that only certain musical notes are below 40Hz. Most all musical instruments are above 50 Hz...the most important thing, is the resonance of the instrument itself and reproduce it as it is...without adding or taking away anything from it´s natural sound. Some of you, Summits or Vantage users, had noticed that if its better for the right image and stage, the use of less low frequency energy in the room. This kind of setting, will provide better sound stage for voices and many musical instruments...so it is not a matter of quantity of bass, than a matter of quality of the bass. For HT purpose, the subwoofer is a must. Also for certain kind of music like rock, you need the reinforce of the low frequency...but sometimes, I rather have a piano and a string quarted next to it, than a heavy clean bass in my room...this is my liking, and not necessary yours!...lets wait for the next mighty CLX, and for now let´s enjoy our great music, chicos...happy listening,
Roberto.
 

Rich

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Joey_V said:
And it'll probably be expensive.
Like Roberto, my guess is that it won't be as expensive as the Summits. When you look at the cost of replacement panels, it seems the panel is the least expensive part of a Martin Logan speaker. I think the dynamic driver and crossovers are what make the Summit and others so much more expensive. I wish they would leak some more information about this product, but judging by the Stage we won't know anything until they are ready to take it to market.
 

roberto

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Rich said:
Like Roberto, my guess is that it won't be as expensive as the Summits. When you look at the cost of replacement panels, it seems the panel is the least expensive part of a Martin Logan speaker. I think the dynamic driver and crossovers are what make the Summit and others so much more expensive. I wish they would leak some more information about this product, but judging by the Stage we won't know anything until they are ready to take it to market.
Hola Rich...IMHO what makes ML expensive is the electronics inside. The panels, perhpas are not too expensive, and I think that ML wants their product sounding as well as new, to keep us happy as we were and are since the begining of our purchase, so I strongly think that perhaps they are helping us with the panel's price. But inside of my CLS IIz are a tone-shape control, and the high voltage block pc board with two big xformers, and these are ery vexpensive parts, no doubt about it!. I was speculating regarding the price, because there is no model between the Vantage and the Summits.
Also, there are crazy people like myself that we love the coherence better than room shaking...and there is nothing wrong to like your room shaking...it is just my liking not to. And with the benefit with the new design of the xtat panels, I have water-mouth or better say ears-water :D :D can't wait to listen the new model...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
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