Summits broken in and lovin em!

[tonepub]

My Summits got here about two weeks ago, and the CD player has been on repeat 24 hours a day since!

They have broken in rather nicely and I am thrilled with these speakers!

I've probably owned about 50 pairs of speakers over the last 30 years and have probably reviewed another 50 for the magazine, but these are my favorites by a long shot!

I was really excited about the Vantage, but the Summits really are another game altogether.

I can't believe ML can make a speaker that is as musically revealing as the Vantage and Summit for this price!

Once the new issue of TONE is up, Ill get some pics of the room.

High probability this is my last pair of speakers, period!

 

[sebrof2000]

Wow, that's quite a compliment.
Love the online magazine, makes great reading, very informative. I've been through the first 3 since someone else on this board posted a link a few days ago (tonepublications.com).
So, are the summits at home or in the studio?
And I assume you're JD?

Mike

 

[Pcar928fan]

Tonepub,

That is great to read. You say you have reviewed another 50+ speakers, how many have been in the price range or above of the Summit? Just curious.

It is like when you drive your first Porsche or Ferrari even if it is pretty crappy as those cars go it is still probably the best car you would have ever driven. It is all about your point of referrence... I guess if you got to drive a McLaren F1 you could say everything else is crap by comparison and pretty much you would be right as that car is still the pinnacle of road going sports cars...

 

[sleepysurf]

Nice to hear you're happy! Now, how 'bout Tone doing a feature article on the never-ending audiophile upgrade phenomenon we call "Joeyitis" around here!

 

[Joey_V]

Nice to hear you're happy! Now, how 'bout Tone doing a feature article on the never-ending audiophile upgrade phenomenon we call "Joeyitis" around here!

Glad you enjoy the Summits!! The great thng is, they get better as you get to know them and rally the upstream components around them.... so you're not even started yet!

Joey

PS
As always Alan.... you make me smile!

 

[tonepub]

PCAR: Probably 1/3 of what we've reviewed has been above the price of the Summits, 1/3 about the same price and 1/3 significantly below.

I also have pretty regular access to a friends big Wilsons, our classical writer has a 20k pair of Avalons, etc...

Joey: Actually, with my latest upgrade, I'm pretty much done for the duration unless one little surprise that I can't discuss (signed NDA) comes to fruition.

My system is out in the studio and is in a dedicated space that is 16 x 24. The Summits are on the long wall about four feet out from the back wall, which is treated with GIK panels. I have those big GIK triangle shaped bass traps in the corners and a bit of Sonex where the first reflection point is. I had a little help with room arrangement from Steve Hoffman, George Cardas and my friends nextdoor neighbor who is a certified audiologist. Don't know if it's the bees butt, but it works pretty well.

Speakers are about 9 feet apart and 9 feet from the couch. Harvey, our local ML rep gave me a little help on exact placement too.

My system consists of a CJ Act2/Series 2 linestage, CJ Premier 350 amp and ASR Basis Exclusive Phono Preamp. Digital source is the Naim 555. Analog source is a Rega P9/RB1000/Grado Statement and an SME 10/SME V/MoFi 3.5C. All interconnects are Cardas Golden Reference, Speaker cables are Tetra Artet (bi wired) and power cords are a mixture of Running Springs Mongoose and Essential Sound Products The Essence "Reference" There is a 20 amp dedicated line with Furutech outlets to a Running Springs Jaco for Everything but the power amp, which is on its own 20amp line with a Running Springs Duke. Gear is all on three Finite Elemente Pagode signature racks with Cerapucs and Ceraballs and the 350 is between the speakers on a Pagode amp stand with Cerapucs. All cables are off the floor with Dedicated Audio Cable towers.

After adding the Naim 555, I am equally happy with digital and analog for the first time since the medium was introduced.

So, for now, I'm DONE upgrading. There may be an interconnect or power cord out there that might give me a couple percent, but I'm pretty thrilled with the results at this point, and as my main reference the system has plenty of resolution to hear the difference between it and anything I need to review.

 

[tonyc]

Tonepub, I am glad you like your Summits. I like mine too, even though I still miss my Apogee Divas at times. You have a great system and I really like your magazine as well. Might we expect a formal review? Just try the Essence on the Summits-I did and never looked back. Welcome to our wacky web world!

 

[tonepub]

Thanks!

As we just finished the Vantages, you will probably see the Summits in our Dec issue. I used to have Apogees too. (Caliper Signatures.) I've owned a lot of panels over the years; Acoustats, Quads, Magnepans, Apogees and some ML too... I currently have the Final 600i's and 1000i's here for review, but I enjoy the Summit the most.

The Final is more of a vintage Quad sounding speaker. Doesn't have the dynamics the ML speakers do.

Saw your system, very nice! Ill try a pair of Essence cords on the Summits too!

 

[tonepub]

It is like when you drive your first Porsche or Ferrari even if it is pretty crappy as those cars go it is still probably the best car you would have ever driven. It is all about your point of referrence... cars...

You're close....

It is about point of reference. When you drove that first Porsche (my first was a 1980 German grey market 928S) it probably reset the bar for what you thought a car was capable of.

But then the more of them you drive and the more seat time you get, you can really tell the subtle nuances between models. If all you ever drove was a Camry, any Porsche would be fantastic. But once you've driven a ton of them, you might find that you prefer the C4s with the all wheel drive or perhaps you prefer the purist approach of a Euro 69 911 S, or maybe a current high tech GT3. All excellent cars to be sure, but one really does it for you for one reason or another.

So it is with the Summits. Are they the "best speaker made"? I can't really answer that. My old boss, Harry Pearson always said never use the B word.

But i can tell you that for my money, my musical taste, my room and electronics, they give me the most enjoyable combination of dynamics, tonality, imaging, musicality and transparency that I've heard other than perhaps the million dollar MBL system I heard at CES last year.

I had a guy over here listening and he said "nope, these don't play nearly loud enough for me. I crank my watt/puppies up to 120db!"

I had another guy over here (an industry veteran) and when I played some of Steve Hoffmans test pressings for the WB project he started crying.

What's important is that YOU dig it, nothing else matters....

 

[SteveInNC]

I had a guy over here listening and he said "nope, these don't play nearly loud enough for me. I crank my watt/puppies up to 120db!"

... and he's now stone-deaf, so it wouldn't matter if he used a tin can plugged into his amp with string.

What's important is that YOU dig it, nothing else matters....

Hear, hear!

(Oops! didn't see the pun until I re-read it )

 

[edwinr]

My Summits got here about two weeks ago, and the CD player has been on repeat 24 hours a day since!

They have broken in rather nicely and I am thrilled with these speakers!

I've probably owned about 50 pairs of speakers over the last 30 years and have probably reviewed another 50 for the magazine, but these are my favorites by a long shot!

I was really excited about the Vantage, but the Summits really are another game altogether.

I can't believe ML can make a speaker that is as musically revealing as the Vantage and Summit for this price!

Once the new issue of TONE is up, Ill get some pics of the room.

High probability this is my last pair of speakers, period!

I'm glad you like the Summits. I have to admit when I first got mine they sounded okay, but not significantly better than the Vantages which I had before that. I had some doubts about spending that extra money. This view changed about 5 or 6 weeks into my listening sessions. The Summits started to bloom and for the first time the dynamics threatened my memory of my old Klipschorns. Nearly a year later, I am in awe of these speakers.

I don't know whether Martin Logan actually appreciates what they have achieved with the Summits. Are they a bargain? The answer is a resounding YES! ML have made a ground breaking product that offers genuine high-end sound for relatively small dollars.

 

[Pcar928fan]

When you drove that first Porsche (my first was a 1980 German grey market 928S) it probably reset the bar for what you thought a car was capable of.

But then the more of them you drive and the more seat time you get, you can really tell the subtle nuances between models. If all you ever drove was a Camry, any Porsche would be fantastic. But once you've driven a ton of them, you might find that you prefer the C4s with the all wheel drive or perhaps you prefer the purist approach of a Euro 69 911 S, or maybe a current high tech GT3. All excellent cars to be sure, but one really does it for you for one reason or another.

So it is with the Summits. Are they the "best speaker made"? I can't really answer that. My old boss, Harry Pearson always said never use the B word.

But i can tell you that for my money, my musical taste, my room and electronics, they give me the most enjoyable combination of dynamics, tonality, imaging, musicality and transparency that I've heard other than perhaps the million dollar MBL system I heard at CES last year.

Tone,

Great post! My first P-car experience was my Uncles '84 911 Carrera Cab! WOW! What a car! LOVED IT! My personal car at the time was an '80 Triumph Spitfire, so the 911 was a HUGE step up! Tons of fun. I got to drive it pretty regularly but never ran it around to hard (at least in the corners as I was not willing to write that check...)!

Considering your experience I would say your choice of Summit's is HIGH PRAISE indeed! Glad to have you here and look forward to reading more about your perspectives on audio!

Oh, I am a HUGE MBL fan too, but I can't really afford to get into that right now...not with all the cars. My current stable is SIX STRONG of 928's ranging from a fully preped PCA Club Racer for GT2 class based on an '80 928 EURO S to an '81 original body style, '84 S, '88 S4, '92 Euro GTS, and '94 GTS! Just love'em! If I had the money and the time I'd have one of each model year along w/ another dozen or so cars that I also would just love to have!

 

[output555]

Vantage vs. Summit?

"I was really excited about the Vantage, but the Summits really are another game altogether."

TonePub,

Can you briefly describe the differences you hear? Like many others, I wonder what the extra $5k buys, especially considering how gosh darn good the Vantage sounds.

 

[tonepub]

To briefly describe the difference (and yes, the Vantages are fantastic) to me is that they offer up more of the ML experience. They play louder, have more dynamics, quite a bit more weight due to the pair of 10's and at least to me seem even cleaner, more transparent sounding.

However, a lot would depend on your room or system. In a bit smaller room the Vantage does a fantastic job.

It also depends on how loud you listen and what your musical taste is. You may not need the summits.

Either way the Vantage is great but the Summit goes to 12 if you have the gear and the room!!

 

[twich54]

However, a lot would depend on your room or system. In a bit smaller room the Vantage does a fantastic job.

I've been 'preaching' this for some time, if your room size is 300 sq ft or less than Vantage's mated with a top-notch servo base sub will equal or better the Summitt's and save you $$$ to put elsewhere........ like room treatments, etc.

 

[tonepub]

The Summit panel has a different sound and has more dynamic ability, so a vantage with a sub will not "better" what the summit has to offer, but it is very good nonetheless.

Also by having the ability to place a small to moderate sub in a smaller room with Vantages will probably give you a bit more even bass response. It's always a case by case thing.

However, the room treatments, especially for a panel is always a good idea. Any of you that have done this with your ML's (no matter what model) know how much of a jump in clarity and imaging you can get..

Either way, the Vantage is a pretty amazing speaker for 5k.... You can't lose no matter which way you go. I would probably suggest the Vantages with some room treatments and better electronics vs the Summits with lesser gear, only because both of these speakers are so revealing...

 

[Caerus]

I agree with Dave that the Vantages can run with the Summits under certain conditions. There are some ML employees that indicate they like the new Depth i over the Descent i for music. They indicated that the smaller 8" servo sub-woofers were able to respond faster and keep up with the estat panels better. I think that similar analogy may be applicable to the Vantage and Summit as well. I have found my Depth i integrates very nicely with the Vantages, especially since they are all 8” speakers.

It sure would be nice to have Summits though, but new at $6k more I can’t justify them for my room size. But say used for $3k more, I would consider them. That is true “Joeyitis” rationalization at it’s best.

Brad

 

[tonepub]

nothing wrong with rationalizations!

Q: Why are rationalizations better than sex?
A: When was the last time you went a whole day without a rationalization?

 

[output555]

I've been 'preaching' this for some time, if your room size is 300 sq ft or less than Vantage's mated with a top-notch servo base sub will equal or better the Summitt's and save you $$$ to put elsewhere........ like room treatments, etc.

Sounds like I'm right at the edge with a 304 sq. ft. room. Guess I'll hang with the Vantage until told otherwise.

Thanks.

 

[output555]

To briefly describe the difference (and yes, the Vantages are fantastic) to me is that they offer up more of the ML experience. They play louder, have more dynamics, quite a bit more weight due to the pair of 10's and at least to me seem even cleaner, more transparent sounding.

However, a lot would depend on your room or system. In a bit smaller room the Vantage does a fantastic job.

It also depends on how loud you listen and what your musical taste is. You may not need the summits.

Either way the Vantage is great but the Summit goes to 12 if you have the gear and the room!!

Thanks for the insight, JD. Your assessment jibes with others I've read.