Summit X is official!

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I have to agree with TonePub on this one that we would hear a whole lot of crying if the offered a $2500 dollar upgrade path. I think that the only mistake martin logan made was calling it a summit X.
 
DrJRapp...with all due respect...you're a dick.

Mraudio, that is not how we do things here. When you registered, you agreed to certain rules and one of those rules that shows up in BOLD text is this:

Being disrespectful to other members on the site will get you BANNED immediately.

Prefacing your insult with the words, "with all due respect" does not make it any less disrespectful. There are no warnings. Bye.
 
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I fear my earlier post may have bean borderline disrespectful to DrJRapp If so I am sorry sometimes my mouth or fingers speak before my brain thinks. I truly do respect all of you and your opinions
 
Tom

Thanks for standing up and enforcing the rules. I believe it's one thing to attack the message, but quite another to attack the messenger. When we attack each other it negatively effects everyone here in this little society we call ML Club.

We are a multi-faceted crowd here, full of passion and oftimes even the best of us will shoot from the hip. We all have our own opinions, some of which are very strong and well thought out, others, not so. If we all thought the same this would be a very dull place.

Fish Man...no harm..no foul...I'm well aware that small businesses don't hire us as employees, we're too expensive. They hire us as consultants so they only have to pay when they need the expertise.
 
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Tom

Thanks for standing up and enforcing the rules. I believe it's one thing to attack the message, but quite another to attack the messenger. When we attack each other it negatively effects everyone here in this little society we call ML Club.

We are a multi-facited crowd here, full of passion and oftimes even the best of us will shoot from the hip. We all have our own opinions, some of which are very strong and well thought out, others, not so. If we all thought the same this would be a very dull place.

Fish Man...no harm..no foul...I'm well aware that small businesses don't hire us as employees, we're too expensive. They hire us as consultants so they only have to pay when they need the expertise.

Right on DrJRapp
 
And as you will recall, you guys all got pretty grumpy about the CLX, the Summit, the Spire..........

I wouldn't say grumpy - there's good and bad to everything- including ML releases. We discuss the good and we discuss the bad - I wouldn't call that "grumpy". Just quality discussion!!
 
Maybe, maybe not. I don't really think that all that many people would actually invest, and that may be a large part of ML's accountants concern). However, the fact that it was available would add either real or perceived value to our existing Summits.

Dr J,

I agree with you for the most part. As a Vantage owner, I hope that disgruntled customers such as yourself will influence an upgrade path for the Vantage.

That said, I am not sure I agree that this was deliberate. It certainly may have been. But as you say, most people are not crazy enough to sell their summit to go to summit x. Marginal benefits don't outweigh the marginal costs. Those summit owners will go the clx route, if they upgrade at all. Thus, ML is giving up a fairly large revenue stream by not letting people upgrade during a pretty severe economic downturn, having lost its largest dealer network, Tweeter.

Say 500 Summit owners would have chosen to upgrade at, say, $1000 a pop (or even more). That $500,000 +, not chump change. A lot of Summits and CLX's to sell to make that revenue. And they would not be p1ss1ng off the existing customers, which is hard to measure in $$$. My guess they would have done it if they could, but the technical challenges may have been too tough. You could be right, though.
 
this is becoming a dead horse but I will say they could have avoided any problems by just calling it something other than summit X wich seems to agrivate existing owners.
 
one problem they could create for themselves is this constant upgrading
depth - depthi
descent - descent i
cinema - cinema i
summit - summit X
and so on this will soon be anticipated by the cunsumer. people may just hold out for the improvved model I know I probably would.there is nothing wrong with new models but it would be nice to know you do not have a prototype
 
I'm still predicting, as I did in other threads, that there may ultimatly be an upgrade. The resultant speaker may not be a 100% tried and true Summit X, but it will contain the esscence of the Summit X package and deliver the bulk of the performance improvement without the cosmetics. They could name it the Summit i to avoid confusion with a true Summit X on the resale market. It can be designed to be simple enough to be installed by the typical ML dealer, or the end user, to avoid having to ship the speakers significant distances. The technical challenges of doing this are well within ML's capability. Perhaps we just need to show them, through correspondence, that their would be a demand for such an upgrade. That demand won't be fully established until the sound differences in the Summit X over the original are known. I for one like the "lush" voicing of the Summit. That sound is why I bought it in the first place. The CLX is too analytical for my taste so if the Summit X takes on the analytical voicing of the CLX then it may not be the speaker for me...at any price.

It makes marketing sense to deny an upgrade at initial introduction of the Summit X. That way they will get a certain percentage to offload their current Summit and spend the "big bucks" on a new Summit X. Once the initial demand (which I don't predict will be huge in this market) has been met, then they may potentially release an upgrade.

Failing that someone enterprising enough may just go ahead and try to stuff the electronics of the new speaker into the old and make an aftermarket upgrade. Purely speculation on my part...I'm not planning to be that someone...yet...
 
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Isn't this like kicking a dead horse?

The solution is very simple.Either sell your Summits and buy the Summit X or keep them.I do not understand what all the complaining is about.Did you really think that there was never going to be an upgraded version? Martin Logan has done this throughout the history of the company.The only people able to complain were promised that they could update the Summit's to the X version by ML.
 
one problem they could create for themselves is this constant upgrading
depth - depthi
descent - descent i
cinema - cinema i
summit - summit X
and so on this will soon be anticipated by the cunsumer. people may just hold out for the improvved model I know I probably would.there is nothing wrong with new models but it would be nice to know you do not have a prototype

Exactly! I wonder how long it will be (I'd guess 15-24 months) before we get the "CLXi."

Once bitten, twice shy...:(

ML may want to be a little more focused on "taking care of today's customers." Other companies have disregarded them at their peril.
 
Well I don't know but if I see the word Vojtko in the ML sales literature one more time...:devil:
 
what is the proper pronunciation of the word Vojtko is it "VoKo" the j and t silent??? I have never heard anybody ever use it in person before as I shopped at tweeter and I don't think they ever read the sales brochure :eek:
ah I hope soon a real hifi store will emerge in my area once the economic downturn starts its upturn.
 
what is the proper pronunciation of the word Vojtko is it "VoKo" the j and t silent??? I have never heard anybody ever use it in person before as I shopped at tweeter and I don't think they ever read the sales brochure :eek:
ah I hope soon a real hifi store will emerge in my area once the economic downturn starts its upturn.

here's a thread that has a sound file of Joe Vojtko pronouncing his name: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6776
 
Some upgrades make sense to a manufacturer and others don't. I think ML started with the premise of an upgraged Summit and then after they analyzed and designed the new product, realized that at this time an upgrade was not feasible. Who knows what "not feasible" meant to ML: 1) Cost, 2) Risk that only a small population of a small population (present Summit owners) would upgrade, 3) technical aspects, 4) etc.

Remember that ML is not a big company and resources have to allocated over their entire product line. Those of you that own Summits were (in my opinion) shafted somewhat in the way things played out. I was almost one of you but my indecision proved to be a benefit. Of course, I am not enjoying listening to a pair of Summits right now either.

The only thing we can do is wait it out. Let the product speak for itself.
 
Jerry -

Since it seems that the primary difference between the Summit and the Summit X is in the crossover, I wonder if it would be possible to reverse-engineer a new pcb based on the board in the new model. I can imagine this being offered in a publication such as The Audio Amateur. I doubt the cost of putting together a board such as this would be much more than a few hundred bucks.

BTW - I would have no objections to paying $2,500 or so to upgrade IF the sound of the new speaker were demonstrably better than the sound of the old speaker. I cannot fathom spending 14 grand for essentially almost the same speaker that I purchased a few years ago for 10 thou.
 
If you really want to make your Summits sound better, invest in better electronics and room treatment. They are still phenomenal speakers.

While I'm sure the Summit X will incorporate what ML has learned from developing the Spire and CLX, I'd still bet a case of whatever expensive wine you like to drink that the diff between the two will not be as much as what you would get moving up to better gear driving the Summits.

With the bargains out there on Audiogon right now, you can buy the ten thousand dollar pre or power amp for $4500-5500, and that's going to offer up a lot more sound, also leaving you happy with your investment in Summits.
 
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