Summit X is official!
- Thread starter tonepub
- Start date
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Hey, I resemble that remark!
yes, I believe you do :bowdown:
I am totally with you on this silly joke Summit X... ML takes a pair of the binding posts away to make it not work with bi-wire cables and then ad underside lighting as well as a reported "improved" crossover...... give me a break! this is an excuse for ML to offer nothing new to all the upgraders of the world! what a joke and poor excuse for a updated Summit as for me, I will stick with my impressive Summits and leave the floor lighting to Christmas trees & :ROFL:funny cars!
<TABLE class=tborder id=post95145 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_95145 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #000000 1px solid">I am totally with you MrJRapp... on this silly joke Summit X... ML takes a pair of the binding posts away to make it not work with bi-wire cables and then ad underside lighting as well as a reported "improved" crossover...... give me a break! this is an excuse for ML to offer nothing new to all the upgraders of the world! what a joke and poor excuse for a updated Summit as for me, I will stick with my impressive Summits and leave the floor lighting to Christmas trees & :ROFL:funny cars!
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DrJRapp
Well-known member
Marketing's job is to create demand. Often that is accomplished by making something, or someone appear larger than life. It appears in spite of the marketing hype that the improvements to the Summit are revolutionary, the Summit X is more of an evolutionary excersize offerring small improvements and refinements as well as perhaps a change in the voicing to put it more in line with the sound of a CLX. Better?, perhaps a smidgen, that remains to be shown...different, definitly.
Let's see how faithfully the audio reviewers interpret it.
Let's see how faithfully the audio reviewers interpret it.
tonepub
Senior Member
Honestly, I'm not expecting a HUGE difference between the two.
Considering the final MSRP of the Summits was $11k and the X is $14k, if you take the standard cost/retail structure of 4-5x cost = retail pricing, they probably made about 5-800 worth of parts upgrades and are trying to amortize some engineering time.
Considering the cost of premium parts these days, 8 or 10 caps, some better resistors, a new circuit board, some odds and ends and you've easily spent that. We don't know if the woofers are different or the same as the regular Summit, so let's say newer woofers cost 100-200 a pair more.
With shipping costs going up (Fed ex costs have gone up about 35% in the last year), it probably costs another 50-75 bucks to ship them to the dealer...
I guess I'm just looking at what it now costs to produce the Summit, whether it's called X, Y or Z or whatever.
Hypothetically, what if they had left it looking exactly the same, not told you there were any changes under the hood and just raised the price of Summits to $14k?
Gotta remember, not everyone is fanatical about upgrading their gear!
While some of you might be grumpy that you can't upgrade the speaker you already have, you have to admit that the Summit still outperforms a lot of speakers costing twice as much, so in that sense, $14k is still a reasonable price for that speaker...
I know that sounds kind of warped, but......
Considering the final MSRP of the Summits was $11k and the X is $14k, if you take the standard cost/retail structure of 4-5x cost = retail pricing, they probably made about 5-800 worth of parts upgrades and are trying to amortize some engineering time.
Considering the cost of premium parts these days, 8 or 10 caps, some better resistors, a new circuit board, some odds and ends and you've easily spent that. We don't know if the woofers are different or the same as the regular Summit, so let's say newer woofers cost 100-200 a pair more.
With shipping costs going up (Fed ex costs have gone up about 35% in the last year), it probably costs another 50-75 bucks to ship them to the dealer...
I guess I'm just looking at what it now costs to produce the Summit, whether it's called X, Y or Z or whatever.
Hypothetically, what if they had left it looking exactly the same, not told you there were any changes under the hood and just raised the price of Summits to $14k?
Gotta remember, not everyone is fanatical about upgrading their gear!
While some of you might be grumpy that you can't upgrade the speaker you already have, you have to admit that the Summit still outperforms a lot of speakers costing twice as much, so in that sense, $14k is still a reasonable price for that speaker...
I know that sounds kind of warped, but......
DrJRapp
Well-known member
Jeff
Several months ago when the Summit was discontinued and the news of the Summit X was leaked you made a comment that most of us had not reached the ultimate potential of our existing ( Summit) speakers and much could still be gained if we spent our money on improvements in our supporting electronics.
As you are well aware, I was one who followed your advice, especially in the area of front end source gear. I must say you are 1000% right in your premise.
So for those of you who are worried about "missing something" by not having an X...forgettaboutit and go out and trade up to a new CDP or TT, cartridge or phono pre with the money you would have spent. There are some incredible deals out there right now. You'll be acomplishing two things by doing so. Your system will seem brand new, and you'll be injecting some cash into the audio industry...which it sorely needs right now.
That having been said I still believe that we will see an upgrade for the Summit someday that incorporates at least some of the improvements.
Several months ago when the Summit was discontinued and the news of the Summit X was leaked you made a comment that most of us had not reached the ultimate potential of our existing ( Summit) speakers and much could still be gained if we spent our money on improvements in our supporting electronics.
As you are well aware, I was one who followed your advice, especially in the area of front end source gear. I must say you are 1000% right in your premise.
So for those of you who are worried about "missing something" by not having an X...forgettaboutit and go out and trade up to a new CDP or TT, cartridge or phono pre with the money you would have spent. There are some incredible deals out there right now. You'll be acomplishing two things by doing so. Your system will seem brand new, and you'll be injecting some cash into the audio industry...which it sorely needs right now.
That having been said I still believe that we will see an upgrade for the Summit someday that incorporates at least some of the improvements.
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tonepub
Senior Member
Jerry,
Couldn't agree with you more.
When I was using the Summits as my main reference, it was very easy to discern the difference of very expensive source components as my job requires.
I think the equivalent amount of dollars spent going from Summit to Summit X could be spent on getting MUCH more improvement in your system either from the current components and/or some decent room treatments.
Couldn't agree with you more.
When I was using the Summits as my main reference, it was very easy to discern the difference of very expensive source components as my job requires.
I think the equivalent amount of dollars spent going from Summit to Summit X could be spent on getting MUCH more improvement in your system either from the current components and/or some decent room treatments.
houstonshark
Well-known member
Jeff,
Did you ever get the Summit X in for review?
I ordered a pair of Spire with black gloss cabinets and stainless binding posts about 6 weeks ago but they are still several weeks out due to some sort of issue ML is having with the black gloss on another pair of Spire. I decided yesterday to go ahead and cancel the order for the Spire and order the Summit X.
The main reason I decided to switch to the Summit X is that the layout of the living room where they will go in the new house I am building has proven to be almost impossible to place a pair of subs (or even a single for that matter). I will be running the Summit X full range until the new JL Audio Fathom IWS http://home.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=42 is available.
I tried to get a preproduction IWS from JL but they are very secretive about new products and do not release beta or preproduction units. The IWS was supposed to be available back in January but it may be mid summer now.
This all means that I will have to 'live' with the Summit X full range without a sub until the IWS is available and when it is available I will have to cut out the sheetrock in my walls to install the massive enclosure then patch and paint.
I would be curious to get your impressions as to how well they perform without a sub. I would bet it will be 2-3 weeks before mine come in. I ordered them in black ash with stainless binding posts and I plan on taking them apart when I get them to have the cabinets wrapped and stitched in black leather (at a local custom furniture store that does incredible work) so it will probably be at least a month before I have them up and playing and 2 months before my house is finished.
TJ
Did you ever get the Summit X in for review?
I ordered a pair of Spire with black gloss cabinets and stainless binding posts about 6 weeks ago but they are still several weeks out due to some sort of issue ML is having with the black gloss on another pair of Spire. I decided yesterday to go ahead and cancel the order for the Spire and order the Summit X.
The main reason I decided to switch to the Summit X is that the layout of the living room where they will go in the new house I am building has proven to be almost impossible to place a pair of subs (or even a single for that matter). I will be running the Summit X full range until the new JL Audio Fathom IWS http://home.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=42 is available.
I tried to get a preproduction IWS from JL but they are very secretive about new products and do not release beta or preproduction units. The IWS was supposed to be available back in January but it may be mid summer now.
This all means that I will have to 'live' with the Summit X full range without a sub until the IWS is available and when it is available I will have to cut out the sheetrock in my walls to install the massive enclosure then patch and paint.
I would be curious to get your impressions as to how well they perform without a sub. I would bet it will be 2-3 weeks before mine come in. I ordered them in black ash with stainless binding posts and I plan on taking them apart when I get them to have the cabinets wrapped and stitched in black leather (at a local custom furniture store that does incredible work) so it will probably be at least a month before I have them up and playing and 2 months before my house is finished.
TJ
