Buy The Very Best Source You Can Afford

[Joey_V]

But the Summits deserve the very best electronics. I can't believe how the Summits just blossomed into something incredible. I knew they were good, but when I fed them juice from the Mark Levinson, the Summits just went to an entirely different dimension in sound.

That's the thing, the Summits are so revealing of all upstream equipment. I found this out while I have been owning a second set of hifi speakers (the Strata Minis) right next to the Summits. Having the Minis at my disposal and being able to play with them with my electronics has proven to me that (atleast between the speakers I have owned so far), the Summits are so much more revealing of the upstream. For example, when I go switch the Class A bias switch on the Plinius, I can hardly tell the sonic difference on the Minis, but it is very apparent and obvious when I go Class A while listening on the Summits!

The Summits are indeed GREAT! And no matter how good of a source you get, the Summits will ALWAYS respond to an even better source, hence the problem of Joeyitis.

Joey

 

[risabet]

While I agree that the source is important (definitely more important than cables, IMO), buying a more expensive source does not necessarily mean that you're getting exponentially better sound.

Check, for example, Stereophile's review of the Sony SCD-XA9000ES SACD player. The reviewer found that it compared quite favorably with the Linn Unidisk 1.1 that costs almost four times as much-->http://www.stereophile.com/digitalsourcereviews/1203sony/index.html

So, as always, audition before you buy! Preferably, in an A/B comparison.

Don't equate quality with price, especially in the digital domain. Many affordable players have excellent sound, at times better than megabuck players. I can't say the same re: vinyl playback systems. Budget vinyl just isn't as good as expensive vinyl. YMMV

 

[Gordon Gray]

Check out the new Cary Audio CDP1

Hey folks,

After listening to this CD unit in my Summit system, I am totally enthralled by the sound. It replaced my Theta Miles and for $2K, it's extremely impressive from a cost / performance perspective. It also allows you to choose between different sampling rates, which, after listening to this feature for several weeks now, is quite a nice addition / option for a CD playback system. However, please be advised the unit takes a substantial amount of break in before it blossoms.

GG

 

[Robonaut]

One 'little" crackle and your listening is ruined ???????

Um, yes, actually.

Because that crackle is going to occur at the same spot every time your hear that record--I find that utterly maddening.

Maybe it's because I'm an amateur musician who has spent a lot of time engineering my own songs, but any sort of sonic imperfection like background hiss, pops, crackles, etc is quite caustic to my ears.

 

[edwinr]

There are some very good points being made in this thread. As an audiophile I like to think I buy on sound quality, not the price tag. If I can buy great sound for less money I will. Unfortunately most times good sound doesn't come cheap.

But I have found that as components get closer to the 'high end' ideal, the more they sound alike. Whether it be digital or analogue as the primary source. Compare a really good turntable with a really good CD player. Both are extracting the most detail they can out of the disc with less distortion and coloration than lessor components. If CD hadn't come along, I would have been happy with a top notch turntable and cartridge. Now vinyl is a secondary source for me so I have to spend most of my money on a digital front end.

Just watch this space though... I'll get my source right, and some b#%&$#d will come along and shift the goal posts. Next thing I'll be chasing a high res MP3 player!

 

[twich54]

Um, yes, actually.

Because that crackle is going to occur at the same spot every time your hear that record--I find that utterly maddening.

QUOTE]


Gotcha !!! I knew I could get you to bite !! many a "snap crackle and pop" I've been able to get rid of with a proper cleaning !! Don't judge analog buy one listening experience at a dealership that probably has no clue as to how the source (LP) is cared for.

BTW, have you ever listened to "Last Night of Proms" conducted by Collin Davis and the London Symphony on CD .......... NOT !!!!

But as many have said before ....lets not get our feathers ruffled, rather lets sit back and enjoy the music !!!

 

[theWB]

Just watch this space though... I'll get my source right, and some b#%&$#d will come along and shift the goal posts. Next thing I'll be chasing a high res MP3 player!

Very interesting thread. I embraced the CD technology when it came out for many of the reasons stated in Dan's post. Now I do probably 80% of my music listening from my music server, the only discs I pop in the player are DVD AUDIO and SACD.

With the music server I have my entire collection at my finger tips and can pull up any track from any artist in seconds without having to get out of my chair.

Like an IPOD I can make playlists, put the server in shuffle mode, or just shuffle in a certain genre or artist.

I can also burn anything I want from the server to a disc as many times as I want, Great feature for making discs for the car or friends.

The server is also linked to my computor VIA an ethernet cable which allows me to send anything ripped from the internet directly to the server. A typical album can be sent to the server in about a minute.

Just my .02, But I think Dan says it best.:cheers:

Again, there is no best format, just like there is no best cable, power cord, component, etc. It is up to each of us to decide. And if "YOU" like it, then it is the best. That is what is so great about our hobby...many different things to satisfy each of our listening pleasures.

Dan

 

[kwr]

But I have found that as components get closer to the 'high end' ideal, the more they sound alike. Whether it be digital or analogue as the primary source.

.... the sharp intake of breath, the hush of expectation from the audience. Look out - the entry of the Greek chorus.......... Vinyl is better.

I think that this assertion is correct but only in the context of high grade clean vinyl on very expensive highly tweaked turntables. The vinylisti consistently underestimate just what it costs to achieve this. Turntable, arm, cartridge, support, phonostage etc etc. Best of luck to them too, it can be a great sound.

Kevin

 

[ScottG]

Very interesting thread. I embraced the CD technology when it came out for many of the reasons stated in Dan's post. Now I do probably 80% of my music listening from my music server, the only discs I pop in the player are DVD AUDIO and SACD.

+1 Same strategy I believe... I've ripped 400+ CDs lossless to a media server.. all the benefits TheWB indicated, plus I can push these songs throughout the house... Check out a Sonos... works in both a wired and wireless situation

 

[Joey_V]

+1 Same strategy I believe... I've ripped 400+ CDs lossless to a media server.. all the benefits TheWB indicated, plus I can push these songs throughout the house... Check out a Sonos... works in both a wired and wireless situation

I would love to get a Sonos.. but so expensive.

 

[Charliemike]

Um, yes, actually.

Because that crackle is going to occur at the same spot every time your hear that record--I find that utterly maddening.

Maybe it's because I'm an amateur musician who has spent a lot of time engineering my own songs, but any sort of sonic imperfection like background hiss, pops, crackles, etc is quite caustic to my ears.

I might be on thin ice with this but 50's fidelity is why I can't listen to old Beatles recordings. I just can't. The limitations of the technology ruin the experience for me.

I want to get as close as I can to actually being in the recording studio or on the stage with the musicians. I've never heard a truly great vinyl system so I can't really say that I would definitely prefer CD but I don't think I would be able to appreciate anything less than the highest of the high end systems because of my bias.

 

[aliveatfive]

I might be on thin ice with this but 50's fidelity is why I can't listen to old Beatles recordings. I just can't. The limitations of the technology ruin the experience for me.

I want to get as close as I can to actually being in the recording studio or on the stage with the musicians. I've never heard a truly great vinyl system so I can't really say that I would definitely prefer CD but I don't think I would be able to appreciate anything less than the highest of the high end systems because of my bias.

What you anti-vinyl guys don't realize is that a good set-up thoroughly minimizes the old "snap, crackle, pop" of vinyl. As Mikey Fremer of S'Phile says: "Haven't you ever heard a guy cough at a concert?" I can go through a whole stack of well-cared for records and not hear an offending sound. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!

 

[kwr]

I might be on thin ice with this but 50's fidelity is why I can't listen to old Beatles recordings. I just can't. The limitations of the technology ruin the experience for me.

There are some glorious classical recordings from Decca, Mercury, RCA from this period some of which have been released with very high quality 24/96 remasterings. Well worth tracking down with simple miking and recording techniques.

I agree a lot of the pop recordings are dross.

Kevin

 

[roberto]

Hola chicos...I think that I am going to be execute...I don´t care what others say regarding of digital versus analogue...I do trust my ears, and I choose the one that I like most...here is an analogy: what happens if you make from a beefstake, grinded meat?...nothing, right? Now, make me from that same grinded meat, the beefstake again...no way, right?...if you go from analogue to digital, nothing happens, now you have to go from digital to analogue, here is the problem...you have the need to use filters, and these means take little things away...some of us can hear the difference, others don´t or don´t care these minor little things that we, the analogue lovers, likes over digital. Of course we have noise coming from the vinyl, but this noise it is not part of the music or the 3D sound that we get from our turtable, and you can mentally suppress it and concentrate with the musician(s) playing for you. The noise is coming from the speakers, not from the stage, have you notice this?... it is not part of the music..now regarding to digital, how can you mentally filter something that it is bonded with the music? as an example, the strings? You all know the mess of the strings in a big orchestra via digital. No matter how good the recording is. Here in Costa Rica, it is very easy to go to the concert hall so I can assure you this. Music is analgue, vinyl is analogue. Have you ever listened a cymbal next to you? Don´t get me wrong too, I am now using my digital gear (Proceed transport PDT 2 with their digital processor PDP 2) and I am enjoying it very much...and how easy it is to get whatever I want from the disc. Also, it is thousands times much friendly use the digital gear than vinyl...as I said it before...If you want to enjoy digital, you have to stop listening analogue. The truth to my ears is that analogue is more "real" in my system than my digital gear...I had a lot of different digital transports, from Mark Levinson to EAD, also processor from PS Audio to Bell Canto. I kept these Preceeds for me. I do know that they are not the best digital gear available, but they sing nice in my system...and right now I am not worried regarding my maid cleaning around...I did loose very nice cartridges due to wife´s cleaning the house and my music room syndrome!!!!...all I can say too is, both are good to have, and both are giving to me many musical pleasure, and many hours of enjoying many musician(s) with me, with their souls and nuances of their music...I had learned to extract the best of both worlds, and right now, on these times, digital is coming more musical, and I am enjoying it very much too. Regarding the noise issue, musicallity is the clue. In the 60s and 70s, we had to deal with a lot of tape hiss, and we learned to filter it, and listen the musicians playing...but the noise was not part of the instruments...now I am learning to enjoy the digital sound, and I do like it very much too, if I don´t start to make comparisons...I wish you a very happy listening!!
Roberto. :musicnote:

 

[theWB]

I might be on thin ice with this but 50's fidelity is why I can't listen to old Beatles recordings. I just can't. The limitations of the technology ruin the experience for me.

Try this Beatles release I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.:rocker:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=3149

 

[Peter Hogan]

Um, yes, actually.

Because that crackle is going to occur at the same spot every time your hear that record--I find that utterly maddening.

Maybe it's because I'm an amateur musician who has spent a lot of time engineering my own songs, but any sort of sonic imperfection like background hiss, pops, crackles, etc is quite caustic to my ears.

Hi,
I've found most surface noise on LP's can be removed with a proper cleaning (I use a VPI machine). Another thing I've found is that some people set the tracking too light for the cartridge (supposedly to reduce the record wear), and get mistracking on the loud sections. This will damage the vinyl, which more than offsets any gain from the reduced tracking force.

Peter

 

[lugano]

On reflection, my previous CD player was a little 'flat'. Everything was there, but the ML CD player presents the music that's much more realistic and dynamic.

Am I wrong in thinking that you are listening to a ML DAC, as oppposed to your previous CD player's DAC ?

I guess both systems are equally capable of reading the 1's and 0's off the CD... it's what comes after that that matters. AFAIK, you could use ML's DAC and feed it the signal coming from your "old" CD player, and compare that to the situation in which the ML does all the job on its own.

 

[Sambob2]

Thought I had the wrong thread for a second...this is in reference to the original first few postings in this thread...

Consider that the speakers are the common point for everything else in the system. That way if you do go out and spend a lot for the speakers you have your reference to which everything else is judged. You could have well spent less on the speakers but then at the cost of the signal not being produced as accurately and revealing as they could have been.

 

[GregLett]

Thought I had the wrong thread for a second...this is in reference to the original first few postings in this thread...

Consider that the speakers are the common point for everything else in the system. That way if you do go out and spend a lot for the speakers you have your reference to which everything else is judged. You could have well spent less on the speakers but then at the cost of the signal not being produced as accurately and revealing as they could have been.

well put. I went the spend less on speaker route, and I won't do it again or advise anyone to go that route. All points are valid, I just feel that when you audition a great speaker, you should get the best speaker you can, and get entry level source, and amps. The entry level electronics, are pretty good these days. This way when you have a chance to get a great source, and amps you don't have to worry about how much you're not hearing, because you know what your speakers are capable of with great electronics.:musicnote:

 

[risabet]

I might be on thin ice with this but 50's fidelity is why I can't listen to old Beatles recordings. I just can't. The limitations of the technology ruin the experience for me.

I want to get as close as I can to actually being in the recording studio or on the stage with the musicians. I've never heard a truly great vinyl system so I can't really say that I would definitely prefer CD but I don't think I would be able to appreciate anything less than the highest of the high end systems because of my bias.

The late fifties through much of the sixties is known as the "Golden Age of Analog" due to the magnificence of many of the recordings. Though I'm not much of a Beatles fan, its the music not the recordings that turn me off.

It has been my experience that if you want to get closer to the musicians emotionally than vinyl is numero uno, with SACD/DVD-A a rather distant second and CD a very distant third. In my experience CD just leaves me cold to the music. The best CD I heard was a ridiculously expensive McIntosh transport and DAC but for $15,500 combined I'd buy a new TT/arm/cartridge and a lot of vinyl.