Buy The Very Best Source You Can Afford

[edwinr]

I wrote recently that I may have been wrong about the importance of quality interconnects and cables. The little experiment I had with switching cables made me consider the importance of the source. We spend heaps on peripheral stuff and the CD playing duties are generally relegated to a universal product or an inexpensive single disc spinner.

I recently borrowed a Mark Levinson No. 39 CD Processor yesterday and I've spent the last several hours being blown away by the best CD sounds I've ever heard in my home. The Mark Levinson even relegates my treasured CEC Belt Drive CD Player to a poor second - even though the No. 39 is a 6 or 7 year old design..

What am I hearing? Well, an amazing top to bottom coherency with a huge soundstage and every little detail just hanging in the air. This is not something that I had to carefully listen for. It just hit me in the face. Food for thought...

Here's a pic...

 

[edwinr]

Here's a system pic...

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Ooh la la.

I like my $250 Arcam though

 

[Munster]

I know guys that spend thousands on cables and connects and have a $300 source. The source is much more important imho.

 

[risabet]

The Source is King

The system is absolutely limited or made by the quality of the source. If the source can't retrieve the info or screws that info up than the rest of the system is not going to be able to fix it.

Buy the best source you can afford, maybe more than you can afford, and build from there. I bought my LP12 when I had a HK receiver and haven't changed it since (upgrades, yes). I have since found that any updates to the rest of the system have let me hear more of the source.

Cables and tweaks come last IMO, though they definitely can give a system the final level of transparency and detail, musically speaking.

 

[C.A.P]

That is a great player . I have waffled between it and a Krell unit !

 

[GregLett]

I couldn't agree more. I learned ove my four years, in this hobby that expensive cables, only seperate you from your money. I also learned that the most important component in your system are the speakers! Spend a ton on source, amps, preamps, and cables, hook up to crappy speakers, = crappy sound IMO.

 

[risabet]

I couldn't agree more. I learned ove my four years, in this hobby that expensive cables, only seperate you from your money. I also learned that the most important component in your system are the speakers! Spend a ton on source, amps, preamps, and cables, hook up to crappy speakers, = crappy sound IMO.

On the other hand if you have a crappy source and great speakers than you get to hear every flaw in the source. The source is the Alpha and the speakers are the Omega clearly there needs to be a balance between the two but I am sold on the best source possible. Lesser speakers can be driven optimally by good sources but the reverse is not true, you can't get the lost info back if you skimp on the source. YMMV

 

[GregLett]

On the other hand if you have a crappy source and great speakers than you get to hear every flaw in the source. The source is the Alpha and the speakers are the Omega clearly there needs to be a balance between the two but I am sold on the best source possible. Lesser speakers can be driven optimally by good sources but the reverse is not true, you can't get the lost info back if you skimp on the source. YMMV

That's true. But I believe in getting the best speakers first, then building on that. I built my first setup buy getting the best source I coud at the time.
Once I moved up the ladder to better sources, I had to look at speakers again.
But your are right, there has to be a balance.

 

[Joey_V]

It's a balance. Ideally, you get the best of everything... but alas the world is not so. Whichever route one chooses, just know what one is getting oneself into is probably the best tip I can give.

As for me, I went with the best speakers I could afford (or suffer for), then I worked on the rest of the stuff. A lot of people told me I was wrong, but I dont think so.

 

[Audiophiliac]

Nice thing about our "hobby" or "obsession", is that its never "finished"....we can change amps, preamps, CD players, speakers, cables....on and on and over and over forever and ever.....and there will always be many things better and many things worse....the goal is to always enjoy the system to its fullest no matter what stage its in, and work towards the next upgrade at the same time.....hopefully without analyzing too much....analyzing gets in the way of the enjoyment sometimes....gotta be careful...

 

[edwinr]

I guess it doesn't matter too much where you start. Great speakers and so so electronics isn't such a bad way to go - that's how I started with the Summits. But the Summits deserve the very best electronics. I can't believe how the Summits just blossomed into something incredible. I knew they were good, but when I fed them juice from the Mark Levinson, the Summits just went to an entirely different dimension in sound.

On reflection, my previous CD player was a little 'flat'. Everything was there, but the ML CD player presents the music that's much more realistic and dynamic. There is 'air' and substance to the sound. If you guys get a chance, and you haven't heard the Summits before, have a listen with them driven by top end electronics. After you experience what the Summits are capable of, there will be no question that they are probably the best speakers in the world. They deserve to be Martin Logan's flagship.

 

[attyonline]

The more things change...... Ivor Tiefenbrum of Linn said thirty years ago that the source is everything and once again he has been proven correct. If you don't get the signal right at the source, you never get it right period. The last fifteen years of digital sources has convinced most people, esp. new audiophiles, that any ole digital source will work cause its all 1's and 0's and anything can do that. Obviously your experience shows the primacy of the source. Will anyone take this to heart?

 

[Robonaut]

While I agree that the source is important (definitely more important than cables, IMO), buying a more expensive source does not necessarily mean that you're getting exponentially better sound.

Check, for example, Stereophile's review of the Sony SCD-XA9000ES SACD player. The reviewer found that it compared quite favorably with the Linn Unidisk 1.1 that costs almost four times as much-->http://www.stereophile.com/digitalsourcereviews/1203sony/index.html

So, as always, audition before you buy! Preferably, in an A/B comparison.

 

[tonyc]

Here's a system pic...

Nice system edwinr! For those financially challenged among us. A modest analog player well set up will ALWAYS sound better than mega bucks digital. When I was looking for a digital front end I auditioned the mighty Meridian Reference 808 and thought it sounded great-until I listened to my record player. I then took it back and ended up buying an Ayre which I felt was good bang for the buck. The difference in price between the two players would nearly buy Summits.

 

[Robonaut]

A modest analog player well set up will ALWAYS sound better than mega bucks digital.

Okay, I know that the whole "vinyl vs CD" thing is one of the most hotly contested debates in audiophilia, and I probably shouldn't be saying anything that will set off another epic debate but, oh well!

Really, I don't think that I would ever take vinyl over CD. Here's why: while I was speaker shopping recently, the store owner was demoing some high-end Magnepans to another customer. All the gear used was pretty highend stuff, like Musical Fidelity separates. I'm not sure what turntable was being used, but it sure appeared to be a nice one. Anyway, the store owner was playing a jazz record, and it certainly sounded quite nice. However, part way through one of the tracks, it crackled, no doubt due to some flaw in the vinyl itself.

And that's why I could never live with vinyl. If I owned an LP with a crackle in it, I would be anticipating hearing it every time I heard the record--it would utterly ruin the experience. So, I'll stick with my CDs, thank you very much!

 

[twich54]

Really, I don't think that I would ever take vinyl over CD. Here's why: while I was speaker shopping recently, the store owner was demoing some high-end Magnepans to another customer. All the gear used was pretty highend stuff, like Musical Fidelity separates. I'm not sure what turntable was being used, but it sure appeared to be a nice one. Anyway, the store owner was playing a jazz record, and it certainly sounded quite nice. However, part way through one of the tracks, it crackled, no doubt due to some flaw in the vinyl itself.

And that's why I could never live with vinyl. If I owned an LP with a crackle in it, I would be anticipating hearing it every time I heard the record--it would utterly ruin the experience. QUOTE]


One 'little" crackle and your listening is ruined ??????? I would gladly welcome you over to listen to recordings I have both on vinyl and CD and then you would understand !! It's obvious you're young ( enjoy it, it won't last !!) , but those of us who have lovingly cared for our LP collections over the years tend to be biased in favor of analog I guess.

I own some excellent CD's as well and feel the two sources coexist very well. But if forced to give up one, well, that's a no-brainer !!!!!

 

[MiTT]

One 'little" crackle and your listening is ruined ??????? I would gladly welcome you over to listen to recordings I have both on vinyl and CD and then you would understand !! It's obvious you're young ( enjoy it, it won't last !!) , but those of us who have lovingly cared for our LP collections over the years tend to be biased in favor of analog I guess.

I own some excellent CD's as well and feel the two sources coexist very well. But if forced to give up one, well, that's a no-brainer !!!!!

You know I'm with you Dave, and your offer to demonstrate the difference is something I recently went through in a very casual setting. My wife and I had a party recently and as the evening went on quite a few people were curious to hear my system, so I eventually fired it up. One of my employees started talking about how much better CD's were over vinyl, so I started playing comparisons between a great many pieces of music that I have on both formats for him so that he could hear the differences for himself. Pretty soon there was quite a crowd lined up to take turns in the listening chair to enjoy the sweet spot! To the person, everyone who listened preferred vinyl over the CD or even SACD counterpart. Mind you, my digital front end is no slouch (Esoteric DV-50S with occasional use of the Dodson DA217 Mk II DAC for HDCD recordings - about $9500.00 worth of digital gear). The young engineer who was so certain CD was superior has since asked me to help him buy a turntable. Needless to say, I also would keep my turntable and records over all of my digital stuff. When I want to sit down and listen to MUSIC, it's almost always via my analog rig.

On the main topic of this thread - I also believe that the source is king if you want to extract as much information as possible from your musical experience - but of course as I've said many times before - in audio EVERYTHING matters. Our systems must be considered synergisticly, they will only be as good as the weakest link in the chain be it source, amps, cables or speakers.

edwinr, congrats on the Levinson player. The 39 was the first digital product I ever heard that took my breath away. Very sweet piece of kit!

 

[aliveatfive]

You know I'm with you Dave, and your offer to demonstrate the difference is something I recently went through in a very casual setting. My wife and I had a party recently and as the evening went on quite a few people were curious to hear my system, so I eventually fired it up. One of my employees started talking about how much better CD's were over vinyl, so I started playing comparisons between a great many pieces of music that I have on both formats for him so that he could hear the differences for himself. Pretty soon there was quite a crowd lined up to take turns in the listening chair to enjoy the sweet spot! To the person, everyone who listened preferred vinyl over the CD or even SACD counterpart. Mind you, my digital front end is no slouch (Esoteric DV-50S with occasional use of the Dodson DA217 Mk II DAC for HDCD recordings - about $9500.00 worth of digital gear). The young engineer who was so certain CD was superior has since asked me to help him buy a turntable. Needless to say, I also would keep my turntable and records over all of my digital stuff. When I want to sit down and listen to MUSIC, it's almost always via my analog rig.

On the main topic of this thread - I also believe that the source is king if you want to extract as much information as possible from your musical experience - but of course as I've said many times before - in audio EVERYTHING matters. Our systems must be considered synergisticly, they will only be as good as the weakest link in the chain be it source, amps, cables or speakers.

edwinr, congrats on the Levinson player. The 39 was the first digital product I ever heard that took my breath away. Very sweet piece of kit!

I've turned friends into vinyl converts the same way. I'd also like to put my 2 cents into the vinyl camp. If forced to choose it would be a no-brainer. And we also use much of the same equipment - Esoteric dv50s, BAT preamp.

 

[DTB300]

Each format has its benefits and drawbacks that each of us has to decide if it is "worth it" or not. For myself, I will be in the digital format due to a couple of reasons off the top of my head.

• The cost involved with purchasing a vinyl setup (TT, cartridge, cleaning, setup, tweaking gear, and Phono-Pre) that I could live with and enjoy
• The availability and cost of vinyl for the music I like
• Ease of use, little setup or tweaking, care and use, playback, etc.

For more discussion on vinyl and digital, here is a post from a thread concerning Mahler's 2nd on SACD vs Vinyl focusing on the dynamic range abilities of both formats. Make sure to read the post by Robert (link) and then the post by Michael Bishop (recording engineer of Telarc) which is next.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/231384.html

There are also many others posts concerning the soundstage, warmth, etc. etc. of each format in this thread. The thread takes many turns in discussion from the original post, but has some great information. As you read, you will see many pro-vinyl, and many pro-SACD posts.

Again, there is no best format, just like there is no best cable, power cord, component, etc. It is up to each of us to decide. And if "YOU" like it, then it is the best. That is what is so great about our hobby...many different things to satisfy each of our listening pleasures.

Dan