Summit X is official!

[tonepub]

Hey all:

For those of you that haven't seen it, the Summit X is now a reality.

http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_details/summit_x.html

I think when you see some of the improvements they've made, you
will see why they could not do the upgrades. Looks pretty exciting and
I can't wait to get a pair in for review...

Personally, I think these are going to be really cool!

Let the argument/discussion begin!

 

[DrJRapp]

Hey all:

For those of you that haven't seen it, the Summit X is now a reality.

http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_details/summit_x.html

I think when you see some of the improvements they've made, you
will see why they could not do the upgrades.

With all due respects that is a matter of opinion, and you are entitled to yours. From the opinion of a PhD in Engineering there isn't anything that is new on the Summit X that couldn't be incorporated into a few new PCBs for the older Summit. The ESL panel is the same, the woofers themselves are the same, the woofer amps are probably the same, the cabinetry has the same dimensions ( they did not even incorporate the Ecoboard from the CLX???!!!!...shame shame). The new feet are neat, but as we have already seen on this forum a good machine shop can easily create longer feet for the existing Summits. The downlighting is a farce, designed to appeal to the "tuner" crowd that does the same to their cars to give them some of the faux pizzaz that they lack in performance. I think most of us here could live without it.

All the real changes happen in the electronics...which have already been designed (for the Summit X). The just may need to be repackaged onto PCBs that will physically fit the older Summits. I know you're not a design engineer so I'll tell you that it's much less of a task than producing one issue of ToneAudio magazine. When I was configuration manager for the F/A 18 (which is nothing more than a flying computer) we could turn around new PCB designs into boards in 5 days...and that was nearly 20 years ago, things have gotten much easier since.

I for one as a Summit owner wouldn't spend the coin for such an upgrade. As an owner of their former "Flagship" I just get infuriated by the crock of dew dew that they are telling us that it's not possible, and expecting people like yourself to give credibility to their statement that it doesn't have on it's own. Don't you/they realize what you do to yourself by perpetrating the myth?

Instead of perpetuating the myth it would be much better if ML just came out and told the truth. It's not the technical issues holding up an upgrade; it's the $$. The accountants have veto'd any development $$ for them to produce such an upgrade. That sort of statement we could respect.

 

[Rich]

With all due respects that is a matter of opinion, and you are entitled to yours. From the opinion of a PhD in Engineering there isn't anything that is new on thje Summit X that couldn't be incorporated into a few new PCBs.

With all due respect, what kind of an engineer offers his opinion on a product he has never seen before? Perhaps you are right, but it doesn't give you a lot of credibility to go making these arguments about a speaker you have never seen in person.

 

[edmiston]

What gets my goat is that I bought my Summits last summer. Before doing so, I spoke to a woman at ML in the sales department, who assured me that my Summits would be upgradeable to "X" status, if desired. Not that I need blue lighting on my floors.......

Mark

 

[RUR]

If we can determine if the crossover is contained on a discrete PCB for both Summit and Summit X, we could better answer some of these questions.

Assuming that it is, which would tend to make sense, adapting the newer crossover to the older Summit would seem to be a fairly trivial engineering problem.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Not seeing much to interest me to upgrade to the "X".

From the literature, looks like the major thing is improving the dispersion of the bass units and a better sonic integration (crossover improvements) with the panels.

Will be interesting to read some real world comparisons.

If I were in the market for a Summit, one can buy a used Summit for $6 - 7K. The new "X" costs $14K. Assuming the panel and the woofers are the same, it does beg the price / performance ratio difference question.

Given my respect for ML, I'll wait for reviews and hopefully have a chance to audition. At the moment, I remain very dubious.

GG

PS: The downward lighting is a bit too "cute" for me although some may like it. I prefer to listen by candle light.

 

[FISH_MAN]

With all due respects that is a matter of opinion, and you are entitled to yours. From the opinion of a PhD in Engineering there isn't anything that is new on the Summit X that couldn't be incorporated into a few new PCBs for the older Summit. The ESL panel is the same, the woofers themselves are the same, the woofer amps are probably the same, the cabinetry has the same dimensions ( they did not even incorporate the Ecoboard from the CLX???!!!!...shame shame). The new feet are neat, but as we have already seen on this forum a good machine shop can easily create longer feet for the existing Summits. The downlighting is a farce, designed to appeal to the "tuner" crowd that does the same to their cars to give them some of the faux pizzaz that they lack in performance. I think most of us here could live without it.

All the real changes happen in the electronics...which have already been designed (for the Summit X). The just may need to be repackaged onto PCBs that will physically fit the older Summits. I know you're not a design engineer so I'll tell you that it's much less of a task than producing one issue of ToneAudio magazine. When I was configuration manager for the F/A 18 (which is nothing more than a flying computer) we could turn around new PCB designs into boards in 5 days...and that was nearly 20 years ago, things have gotten much easier since.

I for one as a Summit owner wouldn't spend the coin for such an upgrade. As an owner of their former "Flagship" I just get infuriated by the crock of dew dew that they are telling us that it's not possible, and expecting people like yourself to give credibility to their statement that it doesn't have on it's own. Don't you/they realize what you do to yourself by perpetrating the myth?

Instead of perpetuating the myth it would be much better if ML just came out and told the truth. It's not the technical issues holding up an upgrade; it's the $$. The accountants have veto'd any development $$ for them to produce such an upgrade. That sort of statement we could respect.

this is why small businesses do not like to hire people with PhD's especially ones with engineering PhD's.
all do respect intended

 

[mraudio]

DrJRapp...with all due respect...you're a dick.

 

[Bernard]

Has anything before generated so much conjecture ?

The proof of the pudding......we cannot pass judgement until we actually listen to these things. As Ivor once said, "If you have not heard it, you don't have an opinion".

 

[tonepub]

Well, I think to clarify was that with new crossovers, different
panels and different woofer implementation, they could not
do it for a reasonable price in a way that would have made sense
for both ML and the customer.

One of the biggest problems they face is just the cost of shipping.

When I shipped my Summits to our writer in Wisconsin, it was
$400 with insurance. So, I have to imagine that sending your Summits
back to ML would probably be a $700-1000 round trip WITHOUT the
upgrade.

So, let's say the cost of reconfiguring the crossover is zero. I'm sure
to do a new crossover, even if they reconfig the board to fit, is still
going to be worth at least $500 worth of parts. Then they would probably budget in a bit to now extend the warranty to Summit X specs, etc. etc.

Also factor in some damage, because you know someone's speakers will get damaged somewhere along the line and I'm sure you're going to expect the mfr to eat that cost, so now this update is probably going to cost a minimum of a couple thousand dollars.

Originally I was told that the panel and box are subtly different, that none of the same CAD drawings were used.

I wasn't "perpetuating a myth", I was just trying to point out that when you saw that more than just slapping a new crossover board in was done, you would connect the dots and realize that this wasn't a cost effective upgrade.

You can't expect a company to work for nothing and they can't expect the customer to pay too much for upgrades.

If ML came out and said the upgrade was $2500 plus shipping, you'd all be squealing too.

 

[tonepub]

And for what it's worth, I think the lighting is kind of silly, but it will make for some fun photos when we get the Summit X in....

 

[FISH_MAN]

all I have to say is that in an hour or so I am going home to pour myself a nice glass of Chimay blue that I have in the frig kick back and enjoy my spires and believe me there will be no feeling of "audionervosa" or any other obsessive feelings about my system!

the lighting is kick A in my opinion buddy

 

[tonepub]

And that's why they allow you to switch it on or off...

The person who loves it can enjoy it and vice versa.

 

[amey01]

Look at all this talk and critcism on something NONE of us have even heard!! Let's wait, right?

That said, I think the blue lighting is kitsch.......

 

[FISH_MAN]

almost everyone here at one point has tried to either ad lights to or on their speakers whether they admit it or not.

 

[tonepub]

Look at all this talk and critcism on something NONE of us have even heard!! Let's wait, right?

That said, I think the blue lighting is kitsch.......

And as you will recall, you guys all got pretty grumpy about the CLX, the Summit, the Spire..........

 

[FISH_MAN]

I wonder if the summit x spikes will go on my spires ???

 

[SundayNiagara]

With all due respects that is a matter of opinion, and you are entitled to yours. From the opinion of a PhD in Engineering there isn't anything that is new on the Summit X that couldn't be incorporated into a few new PCBs for the older Summit. The ESL panel is the same, the woofers themselves are the same, the woofer amps are probably the same, the cabinetry has the same dimensions ( they did not even incorporate the Ecoboard from the CLX???!!!!...shame shame). The new feet are neat, but as we have already seen on this forum a good machine shop can easily create longer feet for the existing Summits. The downlighting is a farce, designed to appeal to the "tuner" crowd that does the same to their cars to give them some of the faux pizzaz that they lack in performance. I think most of us here could live without it.

All the real changes happen in the electronics...which have already been designed (for the Summit X). The just may need to be repackaged onto PCBs that will physically fit the older Summits. I know you're not a design engineer so I'll tell you that it's much less of a task than producing one issue of ToneAudio magazine. When I was configuration manager for the F/A 18 (which is nothing more than a flying computer) we could turn around new PCB designs into boards in 5 days...and that was nearly 20 years ago, things have gotten much easier since.

I for one as a Summit owner wouldn't spend the coin for such an upgrade. As an owner of their former "Flagship" I just get infuriated by the crock of dew dew that they are telling us that it's not possible, and expecting people like yourself to give credibility to their statement that it doesn't have on it's own. Don't you/they realize what you do to yourself by perpetrating the myth?

Instead of perpetuating the myth it would be much better if ML just came out and told the truth. It's not the technical issues holding up an upgrade; it's the $$. The accountants have veto'd any development $$ for them to produce such an upgrade. That sort of statement we could respect.

Post of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sometimes a little vinegar is required.

 

[DrJRapp]

If ML came out and said the upgrade was $2500 plus shipping, you'd all be squealing too.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't really think that all that many people would actually invest, and that may be a large part of ML's accountants concern). However, the fact that it was available would add either real or perceived value to our existing Summits.

I recently purchased a used turntable. The person who sold it to me added value to the transaction and helped me make my purchase decision by telling me it was upgradeable. Now, I probably never will because of the cost/benifit involved, but knowing it's possible is still comforting, and will help me sell it when and if the time comes to unload it.

Time to go spin some black pizza......

 

[RichTeer]

Another thing worth pointing out is that the Summit X has no provision for bi-wiring (just one set of terminals), whereas the Summit does. So now one needs to figure in the cost of a new back plate into the cost of an upgrade. And this makes a Summit -> Summit X upgrade an even more expensive proposition.

Current Summit owners rejoince: your speakers are just as excellent today as they were when you bought them.