Nordost Interconnect Flavors....

[SugarMedia]

"Is this extra money spent on "X" cable worth the change in the sound of my system?" So far, with what I have heard in my small testing, it has not been worth it.

If your budget allows for SPM, Red Dawn or Valhalla cabling, the question remains, is it an appropriate purchase? The key is the quality of your reference equipment.

Since SPM or RedDawn cabling is extremely neutral, it will not mask the sound of bad recordings, nor soften the impact of harsh electronics. If your DAC or amp delivers muddy, unfocused bass, don’t expect SPM or Red dawn or even blue heaven to focus it for you. If you’ve got low wattage single-ended electronics that are closed off on top and bottom, don’t expect Red Dawn or SPM to artificially boost your top end. If you’ve got everything plugged into the wall, don’t expect a lower noise floor when you use SPM or Red Dawn. And if you’ve got $75,000 worth of electronics powered by stock power cords, do not expect, even with Valhalla cabling, to hear anything approaching the quality of sound that such electronics can ultimately output.

 

[DTB300]

If your budget allows for SPM, Red Dawn or Valhalla cabling, the question remains, is it an appropriate purchase? The key is the quality of your reference equipment.

Appropriate purchase to me means, money spent on "X" product, gives you the equivilent change in your system for what you paid. Is it $400 worth of changes, is $1k worth it for the changes - this change is evaluated over the current product you use. And what you could buy with the money saved? More Music, a step up in the next model of equipment? We need to have the big picture in mind.

Having more money, or top of the line equipment, does not necessarily mean you should spend more money - too many people are in this mode with everything that they buy. I pride myself on getting great sound from very good equipment including cables at a very good price.

Paying MSRP is absurd no matter what it is. For thost that wait and have patience they will be rewarded.

Since SPM or RedDawn cabling is extremely neutral, it will not mask the sound of bad recordings, nor soften the impact of harsh electronics.

I am not looking for masking, softening, hardening, etc. I am looking for playback getting close to that "live music" sound that I am accustomed to. While we will NEVER get there, it is nice to get close and be able to sit and enjoy the "tunes". While it will never compare to the "live" experience, it sure is nice to sit at home and get totally lost in the sound and leave your troubles behind. I can do this now quite easily and really have no need to change anything.

But this "cable challenge" of mine is just something to do and hopefully help educate some others in knowing that more does not necessarily mean better and folks need to be careful not to get caught in the marketing and saleperson traps. Cables DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, and we each have to decide on what price to pay. But we each have to make that decision for ourselves. If you want to pay $800-$1k for an IC like the SPM, and you feel it is well worth the $$$ spent over lesser priced IC's - then by all means that is your decision and I am not here to say you or others are wrong.

My belief/opinion is there is a lesser return on investment for an IC priced that high over a lower priced IC, and the money I save, allows me to purchase more music or other components that will give me more of an improvement.

My opinion my choice....just as you have your opinion and your choice.

If your DAC or amp delivers muddy, unfocused bass, don’t expect SPM or Red dawn or even blue heaven to focus it for you.

And I have never stated that what I am looking for is correction for the lacking of my other components - nor should anyone else that is putting a system together. Our systems are only as good as the weakest part.

What I am trying to find out, is how my $75 IC of wire/connector recipe compares to other IC's that are out there. Some here have said that Nordost is a great cable, so I am trying that brand out as my local store has them for demo.

I did this same thing when I purchase my new amp - saw what was out there, listened to what people here enjoyed, and made MY decision based on my listening preferences that I have developed over the years.

Dan

 

[SugarMedia]

I did this same thing when I purchase my new amp - saw what was out there, listened to what people here enjoyed, and made MY decision based on my listening preferences that I have developed over the years. Dan

And that's the only way to do it Dan. As for my cables, I took the advice of many on here and bought 9/10 rated, used cables from Ebay and Audiogon and afforded myself a cable that I otherwise couldn't have justified spending the money on. Speaker cables and IC's were probably the most difficult thing for me to buy since there are pro's and con's to every argument.

So after auditioning many brands and finding what I liked best on my system, I approached my wife the same way she approaches me., "Look hunny, I saved $1,000 dollars." (Usually I would tell her, "Great, you should've bought two pairs and saved $2,000.")

Good luck in your quest for pure sound...

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~t...hp?t=462&page=1&pp=15&highlight=brand+speaker

 

[tascam]

just plain dumb

It is only because we are dumb enough to pay $3300 for a three foot piece of wire that these greedy thieves selling wire get away with this. I buy great cables for my recording studio for a small fraction of the price and they work great. Stop buying this overpriced stuff and the prices will come down. Do you think HP or any of the reviewers pay for this stuff? NO WAY. Theye write nice things and get it for free. Tell the manufacturers like I do that you won't be ripped off anymore and don't buy from them. They will lower the price or go out of business. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DTB300]

Good luck in your quest for pure sound...

I would not use the word "pure". I look for enjoyment, involvement and feeling the music as if I am a part of it - as I can do now with my current setup. Heck I enjoyed my system when the Sequels were my main speaker. I've enjoyed every step along the way with my setup over the past 25+ years.

This IC testing is not a quest due to unhappiness with my setup, or to slam other products. It is my hobby, it is fun to do this, and it is educational.

EVERYONE...the start of this post was not to start a cable war or if cables made a differenece or not - we each have to decide that. I was just comparing my DIY IC's to some manufactured IC's and reporting back on what I found. These posts are neither the final answer or the bottom line on cables. Please everyone do your own testing with your own budgets and go from there.

Dan

 

[SugarMedia]

Semantics

I would not use the word "pure".

Yes, "Pure" is my word.

And the debate goes on...

 

[DTB300]

Yes, "Pure" is my word.
And the debate goes on...

Sorry, to me that is Marketing Hype. No such thing as "Pure" sound, only reproduced sound of the original recorded source, and those will always be flawed - hence it cannot be "Pure". Otherwise we would all have actual "Live" sound in our homes - and the only ones who do have that are the muscians who play at home.

 

[tascam]

Pure?

Pure what? Start with the cleanest source and you still have the imperfections of the source (the recordings) and your acoustics. ANY cable is a tone control and sometimes can work in the favor of your tastes. You can get a perfectly clean signal from good copper wire, The stuff I use in my studio works perfectly. Don't you guys understand the profit margin on this ridiculously overpriced wire? Spend your money as you choose. Just understand that there is no reason to pay that kind of money for a clean signal.

 

[SugarMedia]

Pure what? Start with the cleanest source and you still have the imperfections of the source (the recordings) and your acoustics. ANY cable is a tone control and sometimes can work in the favor of your tastes. You can get a perfectly clean signal from good copper wire, The stuff I use in my studio works perfectly. Don't you guys understand the profit margin on this ridiculously overpriced wire? Spend your money as you choose. Just understand that there is no reason to pay that kind of money for a clean signal.

Look, you guys are clearly getting caught up on the semantics of my post when there is no point. I left a "good will" closure and that's all it should be taken as.

What you see as "others being ripped off" may ultimately be what is relative to them and what they trusted their ears on. It's music, it's a hobby and cables react differently to every system. But you know that.

Going back and searching over all the cable posts that exist on this forum it's obvious that some are clearly looking for ways to justify their DIY cables. Why? There's no need to, if you trust your ears. Buy what you like... it's that simple.

So... "Good luck in your pursuit of Reproduced sound that sounds like the original source."

http://wimp.com/like/

 

[garmtz]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... Everyone will make decisions based on different grounds, which is good! Else we all could buy the same wire and have the same systems and wouldn't that be kinda boring?

Some Nordost news (pretty hot off the needle), is that there will be new cables with Valhalla technology (mono-fil) for much less money. They will be interconnects and are called Tyr, Frey and Heimdall. Probably, SPM Reference and Quattro Fil wil disappear and BH and RD will be priced cheaper. If there also will be new ls-cables is not sure yet.

 

[DTB300]

Look, you guys are clearly getting caught up on the semantics of my post when there is no point. I left a "good will" closure and that's all it should be taken as.

Yeah I went a little overboard on that one...sorry about that.

But semantics and catch phrases of our hobby have always been a sore point IMHO. When someone new jumps into this hobby and stops by forums like ours, they start to read thinks like: warm, edgy, holographic, cold, shrill, slam, bloated, veiled, etc. etc. etc. As a new person, this is just overwhelming, very hard to comprehend, and will sometimes scare them off.

What you see as "others being ripped off" may ultimately be what is relative to them and what they trusted their ears on. It's music, it's a hobby and cables react differently to every system. But you know that.

Sure do, as with every other thing in our life as it is not just limited to audio equipment. A lot of times (not always though), the people that spend the big $$$ on things just want to show them off - "See what I have!!!" to get that WOW look from friends.

Going back and searching over all the cable posts that exist on this forum it's obvious that some are clearly looking for ways to justify their DIY cables.

My starting of this thread was not a way of "justifying my DIY cable". I do not have to JUSTIFY any of my purchases or components to ANYONE here - PERIOD. I started the thread as an informational post for people to see there are many choices out there for cabling and the mega $$$ cables have many alternatives to them. Tascam made a great point:

"ANY cable is a tone control and sometimes can work in the favor of your tastes...... Don't you guys understand the profit margin on this ridiculously overpriced wire?"

And so far, with some of the testing I have done with MY SYSTEM, have matched up perfectly with Tascam's post. The idea that more cost = better product is not alway true. And like SugarMedia stated:

".....if you trust your ears (Roberto quote). Buy what you like... it's that simple."

Garmtz also made a great statement that makes our hobby so much fun and enjoyable...

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... Everyone will make decisions based on different grounds, which is good! Else we all could buy the same wire and have the same systems and wouldn't that be kinda boring?"

And like all other products in our society, if someone will pay the price for something, let it be high priced cables, high prices cars, high prices TV's, etc. etc. they will keep making them. Once the masses stop paying these kind of prices, either the products will cease to exist, or the prices will be reduced.

Conclusion and final statement:

Since this post has taken on a new life of its own and has strayed from the original idea and theme that I wanted, I will no longer be posting the information I find during my testing. Right now I am so glad I never posted the information and testing I did while I auditioned Tube Amplifiers based on what has happened here. If anyone is interested in my results on my testing, please feel free to email me and I will be glad to share.

Dan

 

[Robin]

I just love reading this thread... It has gone from a simple, well intentioned, subjective, survey, to out-raged and philosphical. I think, that is why, I like being a member of this forum, so much... I learn more than just technical audiophile type stuff, I am schooled, in all areas of life - mind, body and soul.

Dan, Thank you for this thought provoking and fantastic thread, dude you rock....

-Robin

 

[TomDac]

The debate over cables will rage on forever!

It would be SO cool if we could all get together, bring our cables with us to someone's house and do some critical listening as a group. Changing cables periodically and discussing the differences we hear.

Not only would this be very informative and enlightening, I think it would be lots of fun.

Tom.

 

[DTB300]

The debate over cables will rage on forever!

And I did not want it to become a debate as they go on forever and end up living a life of their own. It was just my opinion and thoughts on the testing. It was not going to be the final word, just some testing and results.

It would be SO cool if we could all get together, bring our cables with us to someone's house and do some critical listening as a group. Changing cables periodically and discussing the differences we hear.

Not only would this be very informative and enlightening, I think it would be lots of fun.

Testing and auditioning stuff is great fun and very educational to keep up with the latest greatest stuff out there from pennies to the unreachable.

Yes your get-together idea would be great fun, but the cables tested would have to be listed as just "A", "B", "C" and so on (so price and makeup is unknown), to see what people really liked. And we would need Tube & Solid State Amps, Tube and Solid State Pre-Amps, Many Vinyl setup and many CD/SACD setups...and on and on and on. It would take many days to complete. But at least we would all agree on the type of speakers to use - Martin Logan's!!

Dan

 

[garmtz]

I attend these "shootouts" of interlinks once in a while and they are great fun! Not only interlinks are tested, but also sources and amps. Besides learning about new equipment, new insights into how other people listen and think about sound and hearing refreshing new music is a great way to share the common passion: music!

But let's get on topic again...

 

[Robin]

Dan,

OK... This thread is so cool, I just recommended it to, ARB2005, a new member ot the ML Club... Now, Dan,... you really have to complete, your test survey, of the Nordost cables. We are all counting on you, Dan. It has become very important, and not just because, I am recommending, this thread to others, but because your survey is so relavent and timely... Keep up your good work, as we are all watching, waiting and learning. We trust your ears.... as well as our own.

Thank you.

-Robin

 

[MarkNewbie]

What was the original post?????


Ok, I just finished reading all of the posts so far. I still don't really know who shot JR or JFK for that matter. Did I too get "off topic" there?

I really want to hear more about the Nordost testing though....

I am with you Robin...I am getting more and more educated here. Thanks all you people of the ML Club!!!

 

[garmtz]

I will post differences between my own Blue Heaven and the new Frey and Heimdall interconnects soon, because I will get them on demo shortly!

See attachment for picture of the Frey.

 

[DTB300]

I will post differences between my own Blue Heaven and the new Frey and Heimdall interconnects soon, because I will get them on demo shortly!

So they went away from the flatwire huh? Have you read anything on why the new IC's? What kind of prices are they discussing compared to BH?

Dan

 

[DavidG]

I will post differences between my own Blue Heaven and the new Frey and Heimdall interconnects soon, because I will get them on demo shortly!

I'll be interested to hear the results of the comparision. These look to be closer in construction to the higher end Nordost series (Quatro-fil etc). Perhaps we're seeing a 'trickle-down' of the expensive technologies to a more affordable market segment??

Cheers,

David