?? Importance of audio racks

[sleepysurf]

Prompted by a thread on another forum, I've been wondering if there is actually any concrete evidence (at least for non turntable use) that heavy and expensive racks (+/- spikes and vibration control), make any significant audible difference? Aside from the "eye-candy" effect, I don't quite get it. My system is essentially comprised of non-moving parts (95% of my listening via my Squeezebox into a Benchmark DAC). I am currently using an inexpensive StudioTech HF-4 modular rack (with casters on carpet), and even when cranking out thunderous bass tracks, there is virtually no vibration/resonance. To me, if anything, it makes more sense to add isolation feet, or perhaps a heavy weight on top, for any components that appear to resonate. Yet, I see so many audiophiles investing significant $$ on high-end racks, even when they don't have an analog setup!

How many here believe their rack truly influences their sound (excluding turntables, of course)?

 

[kach22i]

.... a heavy weight on top, for any components that appear to resonate.

All of it will resonate, maybe even without the music playing. Tuning that resonance to your ears is very personal and subjective.

I have found that bronze weights on top the preamp and amp bring a little more drive to the music. Why bronze sounds better than a brick or marble is debatable, I just follow my ears.

A rack which clamps the equipment should work very well, but I have to admit I've never heard one.

Do an experiment with your Squeezebox and DAC, let us know what differences you hear.

Lightweight lower cost CD players should get a lot out of resonance tuning, has been my experience.

 

[MiTT]

Mechanical grounding for resonance control is a very widely accepted engineering principle. Trust me, you wouldn't want to drive over a bridge or stand near a street light that didn't account for resonance control. So it is with audio, although for very different reasons and with focus on very different frequencies. Your turntable example is entirely correct, but why would one believe that microphonics don't effect lasers, tubes, chassis, solder joints etc.? Our sound systems are all about creating and controlling sound waves. We spend a lot of money on the equipment, then some more on the room, why not a little more on controlling and dispersing resonance at the source and amplification components?

It's a pretty easy concept to prove out. Spend $100 on some Black Diamond Racing cones from Music Direct. If you can't hear a difference send them back and you're not out anything. If you do (and I think you will), start experimenting with some mass loading and spikes on your current rack. You may decide that simple modifications to what you already have are enough, or you may decide that the benefit you hear is worth investigating even further in the form of a new rack that is designed expressly for the application.

 

[Gordon Gray]

I've had my Michael Green "clamp" rack for many years and wouldn't be without it.

I clamp some of my components and not others based on what I hear.

Even minute vibrations can compromise what you ultimately hear when listening.

IMHO, a high quality rack (along with vibration attenuation cones, etc. under your individual components) is critical to getting everything out of your playback system.

Eliminating coasters and replacing with spikes is the obvious first step for anyone who has such a setup.

One of the best "bang for the buck" upgrades you can make.

And I totally agree with Tim. Try the BDR cones. You have nothing to lose.

Gordon

 

[Bernard]

It's a pretty easy concept to prove out. Spend $100 on some Black Diamond Racing cones from Music Direct.

Tim, I tried them. They made no difference in my system.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I think there is absolutely something to it, at least for devices that actually have moving parts, like a turntable. I used to use the VPI spikes to a thick maple cutting board sitting atop an inexpensive rack or a large wooden cabinet. Switching to an Adona rack brought the sound to a higher level, to my ears; especially with the mini super feet.

 

[JonFo]

This is actually a great reason for going with streaming playback of ripped content. No 'transport vibration' worries at all with that playback vector.

 

[Gordon Gray]

What about all your other components?

I experienced audible improvements not only in my CDP but also in my preamp and amp.

 

[JonFo]

What about all your other components?

I experienced audible improvements not only in my CDP but also in my preamp and amp.

Gordon, I hear you, but is there any evidence that amps, for example, are affected by vibrations?

I mean, many sub vendors install their crossovers and amps inside the box with not many people complaining of the side effects.

Heck, most modern ML's with powered woofers have the amps in the box.

 

[tonepub]

My experience has been minimal so far, though I haven't tried any
of the big bucks racks. I have had good luck with Finite Elemente
Cereballs under tube preamplifiers though. While the chassis of the
most of my gear is fairly substantial, little glowing tube filaments
are not.

That's where I've had the best improvement.

 

[Bernard]

Gordon, I hear you, but is there any evidence that amps, for example, are affected by vibrations?

It would be a consideration with tube amps, where microphonics are a concern.

 

[sleepysurf]

Gordon, I hear you, but is there any evidence that amps, for example, are affected by vibrations?

I mean, many sub vendors install their crossovers and amps inside the box with not many people complaining of the side effects.

Heck, most modern ML's with powered woofers have the amps in the box.

Excellent point Jon!

I have no doubt that resonance exists, both "macro" and "micro" in magnitude. But where do we draw the line? Should we be putting isolation cones under everything else in our listening room (sculptures, pots, lamps, etc), in addition to audio gear, if it has the potential to be "energized" by sound waves? And what about light bulbs? (Oops, forget I said that, as a light bulb suddenly went on in my head, and I have a great idea to sell to the fine folks at Machina Dynamica! )

 

[MOON]

I have a lovan soveriegn rack. Each section is spiked onto the section below and it is sand filled.I found that using symposium products made a vast difference for better sound.I have rollerblocks under everything. The cdp has double stacked rollerblocks (2 sets) on a symposium svelte shelf. I intend to get 2 ultra shevles next year for the cdp,amp and put the svelte shelf under the pre. Since the pictures were taken of my system , I have spread the rack sections 3 , side by side, with the center section being two racks high. The reduction in height of the racks made a big difference sound wise. I would stress not using a high rack if it is going between your logans.

I saw Audioseductions pictures of his system in the members section and saw he had brass dampning disc on everything. Look at the pictures, about the 3rd system down on the 1st page. I ordered the same plates, but at twice the thickness to go on , cdp, pre, amp and conditioner.The site for the plates is www.vermontaudio.com

I will have to report back later , as the dampning plates are one of my Christmas presents.
Cheers, Greg

 

[Neil H]

Instead of spending megabucks I got rid of racks completely. I already had some sandstone blocks in the garage. I drilled some holes in the stone and insterted some spikes so that My carpet would not be compressed. All of my components now sit a about 4 inches above the floor.

I am very pleased with the result as it has opened up the soundstage not having any racks between the speakers. It cost me about $20 for the spikes and the sandstone cost me about $30 for each block when I bought them a few years ago. Much cheaper then a few thousand for a good looking rack.

 

[risabet]

Though anecdotal and thus not proof, my new rack makes the sound substantially different, and better IMO, than my old Lovan stands. Better definition and warmth at the same time. The amps are on individual stands within the frame of the rack, but not attached in any way held off the floor by HVAC pads. The middle shelf is 3/4" Baltic birch with a rabbeted front piece of 1" thick cherry. It is very stiff yet relatively light. It is isolated from the rest of the rack. The Pre is on Herbie's Iso-cups with the lamp black balls.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Excellent point Jon!

I have no doubt that resonance exists, both "macro" and "micro" in magnitude. But where do we draw the line? Should we be putting isolation cones under everything else in our listening room (sculptures, pots, lamps, etc), in addition to audio gear, if it has the potential to be "energized" by sound waves? And what about light bulbs? (Oops, forget I said that, as a light bulb suddenly went on in my head, and I have a great idea to sell to the fine folks at Machina Dynamica! )

Alan,

I think you've taken this to the extreme. Isolation cones under sculptures, etc.? I suppose you should if those objects are part of your audio reproduction chain.

I had one experience years ago that I will never forget. I had, at that time, a Classe CA150 SS amp on the bottom of my current rack. Just for the heck of it, I placed three Mapleshade brass cones under the amp. The improvement was so audible it was silly. I repeated the process to verify.
Same conclusion.

If you want to believe that component vibration attenuation, be it SS or tube, is a minor tweak with little or no return on the investment, that's fine with me.

As for Jonathan's question about some type of measurable proof, I don't have any other that what I've heard and experienced using these devices.

Gordon

 

[David Matz]

I haven't tried BDR, but Stillpoints and Finite Elemente Cerapucks are worth every penny. Although the racks make a difference, the vibration control footers make a much bigger difference.

 

[MOON]

Initally for vibration control , I was using vibrapods, then BDR cones #3's and #4's, then the Symposium offerings.I was quite surprised at the difference in sound switching to the double stacked rollerblocks under my cdp instead of a single set. I am a firm beleiver in vibration control.

I have a feeling that the brass damping plates I ordered will probably have the most impact on top of the cdp.
Cheers, Greg

 

[Tosh]

Try one of every type of chair you have in the house as a listening chair. You can rule out height differences by using an extra cushion or something as a platform (phone books, newspapers, etc.). Avoid high backed chairs (or add extra cushioning) as they prevent sounds from the rear reaching your ears. Compared with equipment stands and other damping effects, I think you'll discover relatively huge differences (and maybe new preferences) from the different resonances of the different chairs, especially in the bass.

 

[Gordon]

My first rack was more a piece of furniture than audio rack. It would vibrate and create all types of unwanted resonances. Replaced it with a BillyBags filled with lead shot. Getting better, but still had a ways to go. I moved the rack from between the speaks to the side wall and instant improvement. The rack was in the exact center of the room, supposedly at the point of least vibration. What a fantastic change! Unfortunately, the rack had to return to the between the speaks spot.

Since I thought vibration was a major source of crud, and proved it by moving to the side wall, I began isolating components on the rack. I placed Symposium roller balls under each piece except the amps. I found the most impact when I isolated the transport and the tube pre. The DAC and pre controller showed minimal, if any improvement from the rollerballs. I also have the speaks sitting on the BDR pits. Since I've added two JL 112 subs, the vibration in the front of the room needs to be looked at. While they produce top shelf bass, I fear the additional vibrations are smearing the presentation in the mids a bit. I believe I'm going to try both the BDR pits and the Symposium FatPadz under the subs and see which, if any, will make a markedly reduction in vibration.

Until I have a good room for audio, I just have to accept the limitations and compensate for the shortcomings.

Gordon