The Thing about Analog is the Analog Thing

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I agree with Dan, your system and music collection should be to provide enjoyment to you and no one else. If your significant others dig it too that's a bonus.
My significant other could care less about my system, but realizes this is what I like to do and respects it, as I respect her hobbies (but they are not as costly). She does not understand some of the costs of items I buy, but again it is my hobby and it is the way I can relax and enjoy my life.
 
I'd encourage a little civility SundayNiagara. While you're certainly free to disagree with anyone here I believe it can done with integrity by all.

I do believe that it's very possible to get a very good sounding inexpensive turntable too, but I'd like to hear more about the point you are trying to make with a little less vitriol or the personal remarks that aren't germaine to the information I'd like to think you are trying to communicate to the group.

Can you elaborate?

Do the comparison yourself. I have, many times. Take your inexpensive ProJect 'table and compare it to your best digital front end and when the viola's come in on Judy Collins' "Houses," you tell me.
 
Tim, if you REALLY love the experience of listening to music that much then why not spend your money listening to REAL live music performed by REAL live musicians. That way, you KNOW that what your are hearing is accurate.

Why not just admit that the entire concept of recorded music playback, even in the most high-end, over-the-top systems is a pitiful, pale shadow of what happens in a live performance, and just spend a few thousand dollars on an "OK" system that will "get you by" between REAL concerts?

The real question here is, is our interest in this hobby motivated by genuine interest in improving and optimizing the technology of accurate musical reproduction (in which case, I doubt that even 5% of the people on this or ANY audiophile forum have a technical or experiential foot to stand on).

Or it is something else, like pride, or satisfaction in belonging to an exclusive club to which the majority of the unwashed public may never aspire?

There are hobbyists, and there are collectors. We must each ask ourselves which one we are, and be honest enough to own our motivations...

--Richard

Post of the day!
 
"You really don't get this at all."

See MITT:
This is what I'm talking about.

OK, but what I was talking about was the difference between "You really don't get this at all" (which I might have worded as "You still don't get my point" and proceeded with my discussion) - and a statement like "You really are a [insert pajorative remark here].

There is a big difference.

Dreamer and I are getting into a pretty deep discussion here, but I certainly don't think either of us have called one another a name. I'm enjoying the banter back and forth in this thread, I don't want to see it get shut down or see anyone bannished just because we might disagree with each other.
 
............................
The easiest way to demonstrate the differences of course is to just play both and let the listener judge for themselves. That's why I have a standing offer for any of our membership to come by for a listen themselves if you're around and judge for themselves with their own ears.
Tim, a really eloquent post (I decided to not quote the entire post, for brevity). "Chapeau" as the French would say, i.e. I take my hat off to you. You have really captured the essence of analog.

BTW I find it most unfortunate that emotions seem to be running high on a few threads, this one included.
 
Wow. you guys are arguing about turntables?!?!? how sad. Everyone knows that turntables are dinosaurs and that digital music is the best. :devil:

(putting on his flame retardant suit... )

ROFL.. just kidding, of course. Like any discussions on internet forums, you MUST MUST MUST not take things too seriously. It's not worth getting worked up over.

This is a FUN hobby and it really should come down to the music and not the gear.

So as our beloved Sgt. Hulka once said, "Lighten up, Francis!!"
 
"Turdtables" my Arse......... "8 tracks" rule baby !!!!! :p
 
,,,it mearly sounds like you have an axe to grind...

You have no idea how true that statement is...

Yeah I have an axe to grind. Unfortunately, I'm one of those "victims of conscience" who has become a self-created refugee due to my inability to participate in the corrupt, anti-Constitutional fascism of the military-industrial complex.

Do I have an "axe to grind"? You bet I do. Because of the actions of these very people I'm talking about, my entire field has been outsourced. Because of these people, my IRA has been devalued to the tune of about 65%. Because of these people, 70,000 other hard-working Americans this month alone, have been given pink slips. Because of these people, there are retirees, community organizations, and charitable foundations all over the world that are now essentially bankrupt. And yet these people still walk the streets, grinning their snarky little smiles and snapping the collars on their Zenga suits.

Sure I have an axe to grind. These sociopathic SOB's should be happy that the only thing people like me have is a verbal "axe to grind". The crypto-fascists in our government and the oligarchical "captains of industry and finance" should say prayers of thanks every night (to their Golden Calf, or Moloch, or whatever demons of duplicity, covetousness, and avarice they worship) that the VAST majority of Americans are too stupid, lazy, brainwashed and chemically rendered mentally deficient through lifetimes of exposure to flouride and prescription psychotropics to come to their senses and do what the French did in 1789...

Is this inflamatory language? You bet. Do I care if my statements offend someone on this list. Sure I do, if that person is offended because my words are too strong and aggressive for "polite company". I don't want to upset anyone who may have delicate sensibilities.

But I won't lose one wink of sleep if someone finds offense because my statements hit "too close to home". In fact, I pray that anyone who takes offense to my posts for that reason would lose sleep themselves. I doubt they would, because oligarchs and sociopaths generally don't put much stock in silly things like social responsibility, humane behavior, or personal culpability for their actions. And if anyone feels the need to come to the defense of these types of people, then in my book they are co-conspirators in the century-cyclical rape and pillage of of the "common man's" wealth, and deserve FAR harsher treatment than a textual tongue-lashing on some obscure corner of the Internet.

Is everyone who owns "flagship" audio gear in this class? No, I don't think so. I mean, Fabio owns Martin Logan Statement e2's, and he's about as socio-economically relevant as a pile of compost.

But I'll bet Bernie Madoff has a pretty hot stereo... ;)

Several members of this list own VPI HRX's, top-of-the-line ARC monoblocks, and Cary 2-chassis preamps, and from what I've seen in posts (and the few I've met in person) most of them seem like pretty cool people. Most of the folks on this forum that I have met are the exception to my premise. I'm not pointing fingers at specific people on this forum. Then again, I haven't seen to many Continuum Caliburns or ClearAudio Statements on people's "System Profile" here either...

I am, however, pointing fingers at people on this forum who would present snarky comments with veiled classist references, and would insinuate that people who dont have such gear are somehow incapable of perceiving the differences that such gear display. I find it morally reprehensible that anyone on this forum would even entertain the thought that aural and sensual acuity, and enthusiasm about the hobby would somehow, in any way, be related to financial status or "class standing". That is just plain nonsense, and is coded classism.

I didn't make this a "class warfare" discussion. I just pulled the veil back from the "coded" insinuations. Some of you may think that you can turn your Freudian slips back on me, but I will not allow it.

I didn't start this, but I will try my best to put an end to it. "Isms" of any type are ugly, inhumane, and divisive, and have no place in a forum like this.

Let's just talk about audio gear.

But please try and be honest about it, and have some sort of real-world perspective about it, eh?
 
Well said Tom............................................... ..............

I enjoy the thread much more when we stay on topic.

Analog Thing.
My Table is "moderately priced" (well not moderate for me, it was all I could do to come up with the scratch) I figured it was a price point that would be a good bang for the buck, around 3 g's table tonearm cartridge. I also traded in a Well Tempered table and got a grand for that. Bottom line? The thing just swings and rocks! Whatever I put on that platter 9 times out of 10 swoops me off my feet.

I also feel since I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 slabs, it was a good investment in personal satisfaction.

Carry On Brothers!

Doug - out
 
You have no idea how true that statement is...

Yeah I have an axe to grind. Unfortunately, I'm one of those "victims of conscience" who has become a self-created refugee due to my inability to participate in the corrupt, anti-Constitutional fascism of the military-industrial complex.

Do I have an "axe to grind"? You bet I do. Because of the actions of these very people I'm talking about, my entire field has been outsourced. Because of these people, my IRA has been devalued to the tune of about 65%. Because of these people, 70,000 other hard-working Americans this month alone, have been given pink slips. Because of these people, there are retirees, community organizations, and charitable foundations all over the world that are now essentially bankrupt. And yet these people still walk the streets, grinning their snarky little smiles and snapping the collars on their Zenga suits.

Sure I have an axe to grind. These sociopathic SOB's should be happy that the only thing people like me have is a verbal "axe to grind". The crypto-fascists in our government and the oligarchical "captains of industry and finance" should say prayers of thanks every night (to their Golden Calf, or Moloch, or whatever demons of duplicity, covetousness, and avarice they worship) that the VAST majority of Americans are too stupid, lazy, brainwashed and chemically rendered mentally deficient through lifetimes of exposure to flouride and prescription psychotropics to come to their senses and do what the French did in 1789...

Is this inflamatory language? You bet. Do I care if my statements offend someone on this list. Sure I do, if that person is offended because my words are too strong and aggressive for "polite company". I don't want to upset anyone who may have delicate sensibilities.

But I won't lose one wink of sleep if someone finds offense because my statements hit "too close to home". In fact, I pray that anyone who takes offense to my posts for that reason would lose sleep themselves. I doubt they would, because oligarchs and sociopaths generally don't put much stock in silly things like social responsibility, humane behavior, or personal culpability for their actions. And if anyone feels the need to come to the defense of these types of people, then in my book they are co-conspirators in the century-cyclical rape and pillage of of the "common man's" wealth, and deserve FAR harsher treatment than a textual tongue-lashing on some obscure corner of the Internet.

Is everyone who owns "flagship" audio gear in this class? No, I don't think so. I mean, Fabio owns Martin Logan Statement e2's, and he's about as socio-economically relevant as a pile of compost.

But I'll bet Bernie Madoff has a pretty hot stereo... ;)

Several members of this list own VPI HRX's, top-of-the-line ARC monoblocks, and Cary 2-chassis preamps, and from what I've seen in posts (and the few I've met in person) most of them seem like pretty cool people. Most of the folks on this forum that I have met are the exception to my premise. I'm not pointing fingers at specific people on this forum. Then again, I haven't seen to many Continuum Caliburns or ClearAudio Statements on people's "System Profile" here either...

I am, however, pointing fingers at people on this forum who would present snarky comments with veiled classist references, and would insinuate that people who dont have such gear are somehow incapable of perceiving the differences that such gear display. I find it morally reprehensible that anyone on this forum would even entertain the thought that aural and sensual acuity, and enthusiasm about the hobby would somehow, in any way, be related to financial status or "class standing". That is just plain nonsense, and is coded classism.

I didn't make this a "class warfare" discussion. I just pulled the veil back from the "coded" insinuations. Some of you may think that you can turn your Freudian slips back on me, but I will not allow it.

I didn't start this, but I will try my best to put an end to it. "Isms" of any type are ugly, inhumane, and divisive, and have no place in a forum like this.

Let's just talk about audio gear.

But please try and be honest about it, and have some sort of real-world perspective about it, eh?

Second best post of the day!
 
I enjoy the thread much more when we stay on topic.
Yeah, I have to admit I have gone off topic here...

BTW, when will people learn not to QUOTE 50+ lines of text for a 3-4 word reply. LEARN HOW TO EDIT PEOPLE.

I digress again...sorry I just got back from the outer limits after reading Dreamers post :devil:
 
My significant other could care less about my system, but realizes this is what I like to do and respects it, as I respect her hobbies (but they are not as costly). She does not understand some of the costs of items I buy, but again it is my hobby and it is the way I can relax and enjoy my life.

Mine too Dan, and that's fine enough with me. She's happy to know that I enjoy myself and occasionally I play something for her that she really ends up enjoying.
 
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So, I finally got my TT dialed in, balanced, and leveled. I was raving about how good it sounded, compared to some of my CDs, and my sweetie just would not believe it. "I HATE vinyl" she says, and "There is NO WAY it sounds anywhere near as good as a CD" she says...

So I FINALLY get her to sit down in the "sweet spot". (One of her daughters had brought her new boyfriend down for a visit last weekend, and I was showing him my rig). I played a couple of my sweetie's favorite CDs,and she seemed to be liking what she was hearing--"Your stereo sounds better than it ever has" was her initial response, and she made a few comments in the middle of some of the songs.

Then I cued up that German pressing of Kate Bush's "Lionheart", and played "WOW" (track 3, side one). She just sat there, toe tapping, eyes closed, and her mouth actually came open a few times, but she didn't speak a word until the song was over.

"That was Kate Bush, wasn't it" she asked. Yes, and it was Kate on Vinyl I replied...

She looks at me, and shakes her head, and says, "OK, maybe it DID have a certain "something" that you don't hear with CDs. A little more "life" or something. OK, it DOES sound better than a CD..."

That made my day...:banana:

BTW, my stepdaughter's early-20-something boyfriend was completely blown away. I think I may have created another one of "us"...:rolleyes:

And THAT, dear brothers and sisters, is what this hobby is REALLY all about: sharing great music with friends. It's REALLY all about enjoying the music, sharing a special moment, and letting that experience allow us to more deeply connect with other people...

All the other stuff--tweeks, CD vs. Vinyl, Tubes Vs. SS, etc. is just vanity and pride...
 
And THAT, dear brothers and sisters, is what this hobby is REALLY all about: sharing great music with friends. It's REALLY all about enjoying the music, sharing a special moment, and letting that experience allow us to more deeply connect with other people...

All the other stuff--tweeks, CD vs. Vinyl, Tubes Vs. SS, etc. is just vanity and pride...

YES it is!
 
So, I finally got my TT dialed in, balanced, and leveled. I was raving about how good it sounded
All the other stuff--tweeks, CD vs. Vinyl, Tubes Vs. SS, etc. is just vanity and pride...

But you're having a CD vs. Vinyl discussion and you're talking about how you spent time "Getting your turntable dialed in"...

?
 
She looks at me, and shakes her head, and says, "OK, maybe it DID have a certain "something" that you don't hear with CDs. A little more "life" or something. OK, it DOES sound better than a CD..."

That made my day...:banana:

BTW, my stepdaughter's early-20-something boyfriend was completely blown away. I think I may have created another one of "us"...:rolleyes:

And THAT, dear brothers and sisters, is what this hobby is REALLY all about: sharing great music with friends. It's REALLY all about enjoying the music, sharing a special moment, and letting that experience allow us to more deeply connect with other people...

Exactly what I was trying to describe when I was talking about that "analog Nirvana". I honestly don't care if folks become vinyl converts either, but it is gratifying when they realize that it certainly isn't an inferior, dead format.

I'm always stoked when we get together with some friends for music night and I either turn folks on to music they haven't heard or they do the same for me. Same thing every year at RMAF. There's always the same old tired audiophile approved warhorses, but I'm forever filling the back pages of my notes with new artists and titles that I have never heard of before but that I simply have to go out and find.

Thanks for getting us back on track Dreamer...
 
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