- Aug 10, 2014
- Reaction score
- Highland Park, IL
This makes sense. I'm pretty sure it needs room facing drivers.
Opposed drivers, passive radiators, etc, just would confuse things.
Great video!!! Thank you very much! I'd seen the earlier video Jon mentions, but this one clears up a lot of things he spoke about in the previous one.Bit more on the topic - I have been in direct contact with Trinnov (one of few companies with that level of support).
Long story short - as many subs as possible, ideally with some level of symmetry and better not that from each other, than in the corners. still passive treatment above 100Hz needed.
Glad to hear your story has a happy ending. Hopefully your problem was a one-off, and you'll have many years of enjoyment from your BF--buzz about better options here notwithstanding. I wish you a speedy recovery so that one day, you'll actually be able to lift the thing.The new sub was delivered mid morning and the old one was just picked up. The trucking company ABF handled it all. Hats off to them. The driver today was awesome and when I told him about my surgery he offered to bring the sub into the home and even unboxed it for me! Really nice guy too, my kinda guy. He came back later in the day and picked up the old subwoofer. The new one is set up and running great.
I will wait for about another 4 weeks until it is safe for me to lift more weight and then order the PSA subwoofer. Im very glad that Martin Logan did such a great job with customer service. Anyone out there looking to buy new from them, you can be assured that they stand behind their warranty and that they make it easy to service. Just make sure that you buy from an authorized dealer.
Here in the northeast a new furnace, when needed, isn't exactly a "life choice"Great video!!! Thank you very much! I'd seen the earlier video Jon mentions, but this one clears up a lot of things he spoke about in the previous one.
I come away with my original supposition with a modification in term, that single plane subs are preferred. They also should be of the same type/size, otherwise complications arise.
Unlike DBA, which in its strictest sense is very inflexible in setup, the Trinnov system "will work with what you have", and is more flexible in exact placement - and - improves upon DBA by way of the digital processing which takes into account more of the reflections involved, plus, ALL of the subs are used for producing and absorbing. In a traditional DBA, the front subs produce the sound, the rear subs absorb the sound.
I've been experimenting with various subwoofer layouts for the the last month or two. I haven't had the time to invest in all that I want to try, but the quick point to make that showed up immediately is that, using six subs lined up between the front L&R speakers with a gap in the middle for a couple stacked amps, using the four equally spaced subs created a response that had very little seat to seat variation, but when I employed all six with that gap in the middle the SPL at the MLP became LESS by a dB instead of more. This is due to a lobing effect because each group of 3 subs acted like two subs and some cancellation in the middle at the MLP was created. An effect of "steering".
This is a representation of the layout I've been working with.
I'm not trying to create a DBA, just playing with line source type setups. I tried vertical last year and it doesn't work well in my room. This, being horizontal, and using the floor as much as possible, seems initially to work well at the seating area. These images are a bit of an oversimplification because my speakers are toed in quite extremely and the subs at each end are actually spaced outward from how they're shown, but I made these graphics a couple weeks ago for a friend to explain what I was testing.
Trinnov remains my number 1 choice for processing! It's not yet in reach for me though. Of course, I could've bought one this month with what I had to layout for a new furnace and AC system, so, it's really just a matter of life choices.
I sure hope this one holds up better. Everything breaks down on me, including my defibrillator and pacemaker system.Glad to hear your story has a happy ending. Hopefully your problem was a one-off, and you'll have many years of enjoyment from your BF--buzz about better options here notwithstanding. I wish you a speedy recovery so that one day, you'll actually be able to lift the thing.
To me BF212 is king of them all. End of discussion, love whatever you wantA) there is nothing like Trinnov 64, max is 48 ch, with up to 64 outputs (used for bi-tri-quad amping some channels.)
B) talk to people at Trinnov as you might be in for a nasty surprise next year, they are very helpful.
C) BF will NOT work with their new game changing Active Acoustics. This is positively confirmed.
you might want to look elsewhere for AV processor, or get in touch with some professional calibrators, if you insist on BF. Storm Audio and their DiRAC ART might be more suitable, although no idea how it handles dipole speakers. Trinnov works wonders for electrostats.
D) any proper subwoofer system treated with new Trinnov Bass Management will be better in multiples compared to even best subs without. I had a chance to attend their demo in Barcelona.
Just a friendly advice, as I am also in the preparation phase of building new ultimate cost-no-object (almost ) Home theatre. It hurts me to say - but there are MUCH better subs out there, in terms of performance.
@Rich - it is not DBA , although it requires subs on the front and rear wall.
Uh, that's certainly an interesting note, which I can relate to somewhat.I sure hope this one holds up better. Everything breaks down on me, including my defibrillator and pacemaker system.
Right now I'm dealing with grage door opener control panels going out. 1st one lasted 8 years and the replacement only lasted 7 years. When they go out, they send out signals that randomly opens the door. This last time it opened my garage door exposing my garage to theft. Open all night long. To make matters worse, it opened up my Porshe 911. So not only was the garage open all night, my car was unlocked as well and the hood was popped open.
It's the liftmaster brand. Model 888LM. Just had the new model, the 889LM installed. Hopefully it's better, but I see reviews by others having the same failure.
So moral of the story, all shit breaks down.
Wow, insurance companies! I'd think that if the car insurance didn't cover it that the homeowners should. I've never looked at it. Maybe insurance works different in Australia.Uh, that's certainly an interesting note, which I can relate to somewhat.
In all the past houses we had, here in Aus and overseas, every automatic garage door we had went bonkeroos! The motors overheating, wiring corrosion, whatever...
After nearly 15yrs of renting and finally building our new home down under, I opted for a manual garage door. Easy peasy to lift and swing up... no issues. I asked the builder whether we were the only ones in our street to opt for manual doors, he said no there was just one other family. I asked why they chose manual, apparently their last automatic door was a bloody nightmare! Uh.
Next door neighbour has a lovely Honda Type R (very rare color); one night a loud crashing noise came from his garage. I went to assist (was in the middle of the night listening to music...) apparently the motor had given way, bringing the entire roller door crashing on top of his Type-R! He was pretty pissed... and started I said not to worry, it happens only once, just get a manual door, and that's exactly what he did!
Type R fully repaired but it cost him a pretty penny, since the insurance Co. didn't cover the garage door motor... of course they didn't! And that's all she wrote.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we had both springs replaced when they went out. The bigger double door went out first and then the smaller one car door later. I think ours lasted about 9 years. We don't use our doors a lot now, especially since covid now has my wife only going to work once a week. Some days they don't get used at all.Garage door springs are rated for the number of uses. Some are 5,000, some are 10,000, some go higher. But it's expected that annual lubrication is performed to reach those number of operations. When you do the math, you may find that the average spring is only expected to last about 7 years.
For example, 4 open/close operations a day equates to 7,300 over 5 years. The rule of thumb garage door companies use is, after 7 years you're on borrowed time, expect a failure. They can last longer, but it's not something to be expected unless you paid for higher duty springs.
The Chinese made springs, like what would be included in discount garage door kits you can find at consumer home stores, are hit or miss. When I used to build the ridiculously large homes for a living we used custom garage door companies that use the same brand operators found in home stores which are a different spec - sold to the pro companies, but they use springs of a quality spec consumers can't easily find, and even those will fail at the expected usage estimate. I just had the springs replaced last year at a house we built in 2013, so they lasted 9 years for a door that's made of solid mahogany 3" thick and has insulated glass windows.
From what I gathered, it was a problem somewhere in the top control panel. I sent the whole thing back to Martin Logan and they diagnosed it there. Ron said its rare for the control panel to go bad. It's usually the amp board. He sent me a new amp board and I installed it. The new board didn't fix the problem. There's really only 4 parts in the speaker I think: control panel, amp board, and then 2 woofers. I tried to get the control board out but couldn't.Nice one RobD, glad to hear the BF sub is behaving... compared to the other one. Speaking of which, any idea what was wrong with it in the first place? Would be good to know since these things are always a learning curve.
Have fun with the subs, you're going to be delighted!
Cheers mate, RJ
This is what I think is the case with auto-on features.Maybe it takes a stronger signal to initially turn it on, but not so strong to stay on?Maybe a weak signal is enough to keep it turned on but not strong enough to initially trigger it on?
Well, after 1 hour the sub is still on. So somehow having the wireless receiver plugged in with the RCA keeps the subwoofer turned on.This is what I think is the case with auto-on features.
It takes a substantial amount of level for my ML subs and 13A speakers to turn on, but not as much to keep them in an ON state. With subs, the signal has to have low enough frequencies at the threshold level to get them to turn on.
I use wireless, Emotiva VSUB, and the ML subs turn off automatically.Well, after 1 hour the sub is still on. So somehow having the wireless receiver plugged in with the RCA keeps the subwoofer turned on.
My big question now, is this just an unfortunate side effect of using the wireless device or is my unit defective? I'm communicating now with Ron at ML. I will see what he says. I wish I could use the 12 volt trigger but the sub is behind my couch now and there's no easy way to run a line.