Vista vs Vantage

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Rik_Rankin said:
Irregardless is a word that many people mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. The word was coined in the United States in the early 20th century, probably from a blend of irrespective and regardless. Perhaps this is why some critics insist that there is “no such word” as irregardless, a charge they would not think of leveling at a nonstandard word with a longer history, such as ain’t. Since people use irregardless, it is undoubtedly a word. But it has never been accepted in Standard English and is usually changed by editors to regardless before getting into print.

I dont know what you are trying to get at. Last time I checked, this forum was not under the scrutiny of a grammar/syntax professor.

It's an ML audio forum and if you're here to pick fights with everyone you encounter, you should leave.
 
Joey_V said:
What they deserve in profits is not in question here either. The point is, the dealer needs to take the time to set up a $10K level speaker properly.

You can find them unlistenable, that's fine. Just dont make it a point to continually reiterate this point and calling people names ("tin ears" etc...). Remember, you are on the ML forum, and we are all biased towards ML.... doing so (posting without tact) without tact will just rub us the wrong way.
What they deserve in profits is not in question here either(IF IT'S OVERPRICED, IS A QUESTION. JUST BECAUSE YOU PAID FULL PRICE DOESN'T MEAN YOU GOT A GOOD VALUE. CAN YOU HONESTLY TELL ME THAT 2 PANELS MOUNTED ON 2 WOODED BOXES WITH A LITTLE AMP, CROSSOVER, AND 2 WOOFERS SHOULD BE 10k?) The point is, the dealer needs to take the time to set up a $10K level speaker properly.(I HEARD THE SPEAKERS AT 3 DEALERS INCLUDING THE ONE CLOSEST TO THE ML FACTORY)

You can find them unlistenable, that's fine(I NEVER SAID THAT; THE DEALER SAID THEY SUCK AND OFFERED A HUGE DISCOUNT TO GET RID OF THEM). Just dont make it a point to continually reiterate this point and calling people names ("tin ears" etc...(THAT WAS AFTER I WAS INSULTED; DID YOU READ THE WHOLE THREAD, PAL?)). Remember, you are on the ML forum, and we are all biased towards ML..(ME TOO).. doing so (posting without tact) without tact will just rub us the wrong way( OH, I AM SCARED!!!).
 
Joey_V said:
I dont know what you are trying to get at. Last time I checked, this forum was not under the scrutiny of a grammar/syntax professor.

It's an ML audio forum and if you're here to pick fights with everyone you encounter, you should leave.
irregardless, we should use proper english. They do on the Innersound forum.
 
Can we kill this thread now? It long ago ceased being a comparison of Vista vs Vantage.
 
total deja vue...hahaha...do the words Rik and Ovature coincide? :rolleyes:
 
You People Have No Sense Of Humor. We're Only Talking Speakers Here, Not A Heart Or Lung.
 
Rik_Rankin said:
You People Have No Sense Of Humor. We're Only Talking Speakers Here, Not A Heart Or Lung.

Hence, you shouldnt get bent out of shape either (caps lock and all).... we are only talking about speakers.
 
Tascam=Ovature=Rik Rankin

Genesis said:
total deja vue...hahaha...do the words Rik and Ovature coincide? :rolleyes:
Let's see...Ovature was banned on July 5th, and Rik Rankin joined on July 22nd, and immediately started posting with the same types of critical remarks and condescending negative tone that Ovature had used. Doesn't take a rocket scientist...

Why you waste your time ruining an otherwise great forum when you obviously have nothing of value to add is beyond me. It is the most adolescent behavior I have ever encountered.
 
Every time I think I'm going to read a new post regarding the Vista vs Vantage, or thoughts on the MF 3.5, I read yet another post of someone feeding the fire and another getting rise out of it.

For god sakes, ignore it and move if it's not a shared opinion of the majority. Are your feelings really that hurt? It's a blog, no one knows anyone. I feel like I'm listening to a bunch of old & childish farts.

With programs such as this: http://proxify.com/ it's impossible to block IP addresses/people these days. Move on.

... and have a nice day.

:)
 
I've always found that when one encounters someone determined to create commotion that the best response is no response at all. Once someone realizes that no response is coming, they lose interest in trying to generate one. ;)
 
Rik_Rankin said:
I just happen to prefer the older models. There has to be a reason why Audioport is willing to sell their demo Summits for $6500! just to get rid of them. I am not saying they are horrible; the dealer said that. Personally my favorite ML speaker is one that I don't own. It happens to be the ascent I and I have listened to most including numerous home auditions. I am perferctly happy with what I have so I am not going to trade. I like the fact that the Summit will play louder and with more dynamics. But the nice warm lower mid range is gone in the newer line which I think made them addictive to listen to. The high ended is too bright to not obscure imperfections in most digital recordings; i.e., there is no plesant roll off on the top like there used to be. The new line is better for HT

Hola Rik. You have the right to like or dislike the new models, but for my old ears, the extra highs are a blessing. I have the Prodegies and the CLS IIzs, these are my toys and I'm getting a super great fun with them, but when you listen the Vantages or the Summits with the right cables and system, they outperform mines with high performance. I do listen many kinds of music, but most is classical and jazz. With the adjustments for the bass at the Summits, these controls are the dream for any audiophlile for most difficult rooms, and you can set them for the proper balance and right size of the instruments easelly. The setting at the stage where the musicians are, the size of the instruments, the right timbre, air between instruments, the feeling of the musician, the transparency and the micro and macro dynamics are truly better. The lack of many resonances that the older models have, makes them to use a total different settings than what you normally used. They are truly cables dependant and room acoustics also is a must with the new models. Also because of the extension of the highs , you have more forward sound, and a little bit less 3 dimensional sound, if you don't match them with the right cables. Right cables does not means expensive, but you have to do a lot of research with them...some might work better, to get the sound that you like. the warm sound of the strings and the body of the chest of a baritone, the size of a spanish guitar next to a grand piano, the feeling and the way that a particular musician plays certain song, the new tech. is better...it is my liking, and most of us, these is what we had found with the new micro perf stators. It is true when you said they perform better with HT sound, because older technology does not match the dynamics and the program material. But it is true that the DTS in classical and Jazz is breath taking to see and listen your favorits m usicians. New way to make the recordings and the Industrial Standars are changing for good. Each day I have the pleasure to listen better live recordings that I choose for better in my HT than in 2 channels, with all respect. Listening Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Oscar Petterson, Amad Jahmal, Lee Ritenour, Dave Grussing and his brother Don, Andre Rieu, is like to be in heaven...I do know that you like yours better than the new generation, but perhaps you didn't use the new recording material to test them, this also is a must. At the old recordings, sometimes you have the musical instruments at certain notes coming from the rear speakers, on the new recordings what you have is the people clapping and whistling, allowing to be more real the live event than in two channels. if you adjust your system for 5 channels, they sound is more life like than 2. This is my liking, and now I am enjoying the eyes too. The video is another tool that makes us to enjoy the performance...I spent many time saying no to 5 channels and now I said yes, and I am super happy with it...
Happy listening,
Roberto.
 
roberto said:
Hola Rik. You have the right to like or dislike the new models, but for my old ears, the extra highs are a blessing. I have the Prodegies and the CLS IIzs, these are my toys and I'm getting a super great fun with them, but when you listen the Vantages or the Summits with the right cables and system, they outperform mines with high performance. I do listen many kinds of music, but most is classical and jazz. With the adjustments for the bass at the Summits, these controls are the dream for any audiophlile for most difficult rooms, and you can set them for the proper balance and right size of the instruments easelly. The setting at the stage where the musicians are, the size of the instruments, the right timbre, air between instruments, the feeling of the musician, the transparency and the micro and macro dynamics are truly better. The lack of many resonances that the older models have, makes them to use a total different settings than what you normally used. They are truly cables dependant and room acoustics also is a must with the new models. Also because of the extension of the highs , you have more forward sound, and a little bit less 3 dimensional sound, if you don't match them with the right cables. Right cables does not means expensive, but you have to do a lot of research with them...some might work better, to get the sound that you like. the warm sound of the strings and the body of the chest of a baritone, the size of a spanish guitar next to a grand piano, the feeling and the way that a particular musician plays certain song, the new tech. is better...it is my liking, and most of us, these is what we had found with the new micro perf stators. It is true when you said they perform better with HT sound, because older technology does not match the dynamics and the program material. But it is true that the DTS in classical and Jazz is breath taking to see and listen your favorits m usicians. New way to make the recordings and the Industrial Standars are changing for good. Each day I have the pleasure to listen better live recordings that I choose for better in my HT than in 2 channels, with all respect. Listening Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Oscar Petterson, Amad Jahmal, Lee Ritenour, Dave Grussing and his brother Don, Andre Rieu, is like to be in heaven...I do know that you like yours better than the new generation, but perhaps you didn't use the new recording material to test them, this also is a must. At the old recordings, sometimes you have the musical instruments at certain notes coming from the rear speakers, on the new recordings what you have is the people clapping and whistling, allowing to be more real the live event than in two channels. if you adjust your system for 5 channels, they sound is more life like than 2. This is my liking, and now I am enjoying the eyes too. The video is another tool that makes us to enjoy the performance...I spent many time saying no to 5 channels and now I said yes, and I am super happy with it...
Happy listening,
Roberto.
I am surprised that you don't buy the Summit if it is that much better. Maybe these dealers I went to had a bad set-up. In my own system and room, I had to dial the bass on the Vantage all the way down and stuff rags in the port to tame the overwhelming booming bass. I tried every position I could to deal with what I thought was a standing wave problem. In the end, they just sounded lousy in my room and I gave up. The vista was even worse. For whatever reason, the SL3, may due to the lower bass output seems ok.
 
Rik_Rankin said:
I am surprised that you don't buy the Summit if it is that much better. Maybe these dealers I went to had a bad set-up. In my own system and room, I had to dial the bass on the Vantage all the way down and stuff rags in the port to tame the overwhelming booming bass. I tried every position I could to deal with what I thought was a standing wave problem. In the end, they just sounded lousy in my room and I gave up. The vista was even worse. For whatever reason, the SL3, may due to the lower bass output seems ok.
Yes you are right...the problem is that I´m out of the greens right now. So you are telling us that you did adjust the control knob at -10 dB at 35Hz you still had booming bass? how far were they from their back wall? What kind of speaker cables you are using? Interconnects? Any room acoustics? Are your listening position very close to your back wall too? Can you tell me the brand of your preamp and amplifier? did you try to lift them about 5" from the floor? did you use spikes? what kind of floor do you have?, please sorry to ask again all this, perhaps I can give some tips that might work for you, with pleasure. I had sold and service ML products since 87...who knows, perhpas some little tricks might help...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
Originally Posted by Rik_Rankin
I am surprised that you don't buy the Summit if it is that much better. Maybe these dealers I went to had a bad set-up. In my own system and room, I had to dial the bass on the Vantage all the way down and stuff rags in the port to tame the overwhelming booming bass. I tried every position I could to deal with what I thought was a standing wave problem. In the end, they just sounded lousy in my room and I gave up. The vista was even worse. For whatever reason, the SL3, may due to the lower bass output seems ok.<!-- / message -->
If you had to go through all that in an attempt to tame overwhelming booming bass then you likely have some room acoustic issues that may need a little taming. The correct way to tame booming bass is to treat the room with some method of bass absorption such as using bass absorption towers (aka bass traps). stuffing rags in ports is a band-aid solution that doesn't adequately address the true cause of booming bass.

Turning the bass all the way down or having to resort to stuffing a speaker's port to tame bass is a strong indication the room is reflecting and reinforcing low frequencies way too much. No speaker is going to produce tight and serious bass when the room is "boomy".

By the way, when are going to post your system on the "Members Systems" section? I'm anxious to see it.
 
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