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Blah, blah, blah! If you don't think cables make a difference, don't buy them.
 
thanks Twitch54 I will read this very carefully when I have more time :) the only time I can even remotely believe that cables make a difference is from a cartridge to a pre-amp as the signal is so ridiculously tiny and is amplified so many times from that small fragile state that perhaps interference could happen.
 
Wire (cables) are like anything else. It is relative.

Put some Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA ultra high performance tires on your eco car or family sedan and it won't make a hill of beans of difference, but mount them on a sports car that can exceed 1G in a turn or go 0 to 100 and back to 0 in less than 10 seconds and you will be a believer in high performance rubber.

Cables are the same. Put some high end cables on a Pioneer SX1010 and a pair of Zenith Allegro speakers and you will never believe, but roll them into a system that can produce and playback nuances of notes and how they can hang in the air and you see what I'm talking about.

Now that is all I'm going to say. Your mileage may vary.
 
thanks Twitch54 I will read this very carefully when I have more time :) the only time I can even remotely believe that cables make a difference is from a cartridge to a pre-amp as the signal is so ridiculously tiny and is amplified so many times from that small fragile state that perhaps interference could happen.
Do you believe that a cable has to break in? If so, the small signal from the cartidge is insufficient to break it in. For that matter, how do you break in the cable within the tonearm?
 
Do you believe that a cable has to break in? If so, the small signal from the cartidge is insufficient to break it in. For that matter, how do you break in the cable within the tonearm?

cables do not break in Bernard. sorry but wire is wire even after you send your happy tunes threw it :)
speakers and cartridges break in because they have moving parts that have to loosen up and fall into their proper places no such things happen in a metal wire it does not make any sense.
 
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While I don't debate the point with those who do not hear a significant (or, in some cases, any) difference between cables, I will note that I have yet to hear anyone claim that the cheap ICs one gets when you buy a mass market CD or DVD player will give you the same performance as more highly-regarded cables. Note I did not say more expensive, just more highly-regarded. My point is that virtually everyone acknowledges that there are differences between cables. The debate seems to be focused on how much of a difference and whether or not it is worth the extra money spent. That, my friends, is in the ear of the beholder.
 
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cables do not break in Bernard. sorry but wire is wire even after you send your happy tunes threw it :)
speakers and cartridges break in because they have moving parts that have to loosen up and fall into their proper places no such things happen in a metal wire it does not make any sense.

And you know this from your extensive background as an electrical engineer? Or as a metallurgist, perhaps? If there are no "moving parts" in the cable, how does the signal get from one end to the other? At the atomic level, the electrons are moving rather rapidly in metal. They form various alignments and bonds between the molecules, creating different physical forms, from various crystals to liquids, etc., depending on factors such as heat, polarity, and so on. So the statement that "wire is wire" is completely simplistic and rather uninformed from a scientific perspective.

I am not saying wire break-in exists or doesn't and I am not commenting on whether it has a noticeable effect on the sound produced. I am not nearly well-enough informed in the science to make any of those statements. I am simply saying be careful spouting absolutes about things that you don't have an in-depth knowledge of. I can imagine someone chastising Edison or Tesla over a century ago for thinking that you could send electricity over a wire, or send a voice signal over a wire. If you had told folks at that time about what we could do with cell phones today, they would have laughed you out of the room or put you in the crazy home. Just because you don't understand the process by which it might occur, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
 
And you know this from your extensive background as an electrical engineer? Or as a metallurgist, perhaps? If there are no "moving parts" in the cable, how does the signal get from one end to the other? At the atomic level, the electrons are moving rather rapidly in metal. They form various alignments and bonds between the molecules, creating different physical forms, from various crystals to liquids, etc., depending on factors such as heat, polarity, and so on. So the statement that "wire is wire" is completely simplistic and rather uninformed from a scientific perspective.

I am not saying wire break-in exists or doesn't and I am not commenting on whether it has a noticeable effect on the sound produced. I am not nearly well-enough informed in the science to make any of those statements. I am simply saying be careful spouting absolutes about things that you don't have an in-depth knowledge of. I can imagine someone chastising Edison or Tesla over a century ago for thinking that you could send electricity over a wire, or send a voice signal over a wire. If you had told folks at that time about what we could do with cell phones today, they would have laughed you out of the room or put you in the crazy home. Just because you don't understand the process by which it might occur, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I have to have a fancy title in front of my name to figure out the world? I am just stating my opinion so just relax you all know that. I think even Edison or or Tesla would laugh at some of the dogmatic rituals that surround cables and the people who use them.
 
Steve, what cables do you use in the rest of your system?
I ordered a 300 foot roll of this 10 gauge copper wire of the internet. I have two sets of wires that run to a heavy duty block type of switch I made myself that I use manually two switch between my analog rig and my home theater one that way I can switch fast and easy without wearing out my binding posts on my spires.and I use the same wire that you buy at home depot to hook up your outside lights around your house to wire up my fresco i's in my living room and they sound great I liked the wire because it was cheap and black.
 

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cables do not break in Bernard. sorry but wire is wire even after you send your happy tunes threw it :)
speakers and cartridges break in because they have moving parts that have to loosen up and fall into their proper places no such things happen in a metal wire it does not make any sense.

Anything with a dialectric will change in sound slightly over time. Sorry buddy, you don't know what you're talking about. It's not a huge diff, but it is there, especially with some of the more exotic cables.
 
I'm in the middle on this.

Although I am a serious skeptic regarding wire that is, in my view, expensive (greater than $20 / foot for speaker wire or a 1M IC exceeding $500), I believe there is real value in price / performance products such as Signal Cable, Anti Wire, DH Labs, and others.

As with all things audio, only your ears can make the "value" determination.

GG
 
Well guys,

I briefly scanned the material.

Under the "House wire and listening" section, the author states the following:

Instant comparison is of paramount importance.

This clearly infers that auditory memory is not valid for purposes of determining differences in wire or, by extension, hardware.

All I can say is WOW.

For the most part of my life, I've always evaluated wire, amps, preamps, CDP's, etc. based on numerous hours of listening over numerous days to ensure whatever difference I was hearing was in fact real. At least to my ears.

I now realize that everything I've done over the last 25 years or so to determine the "musicality" of wire, etc. was so misguided and meaningless.

GG
 
you would think that if there was a difference you could hear it within a minute or so unless it takes you time to convince yourself? that's why they line speakers up in a row at HIFI shops so you can A-B them to each other.not to sound like a jerk but if I re wired your speaks with my wire unbeknown to you you would never know the difference lol
 
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you would think that if there was a difference you could hear it within a minute or so unless it takes you time to convince yourself?

Imagine you are looking at a Renoir painting, and then comparing it to a really, really good forgery of the same painting. When you look at the forgery at first, you can't necessarily tell that it is not an identical copy. It may take you more than a little while to figure out which is real and which is the forgery. If you just glance back and forth from one to the other, you may not see an obvious difference. But over time, as you study them closely, you will notice the brush strokes on one aren't as perfectly placed, that the pigments in the paint are not as colorful or as deftly mixed, etc. You get the idea.

If someone secretly replaced your beloved painting with this forgery, you may not notice for weeks or months or ever. But someone with a keen eye, who knows what to look for, who is well-trained to spot of forgery, could tell the difference pretty quickly. But they wouldn't do so through switching back and forth quickly glancing at one then the other. They would take time to study each painting intently. Why would anyone think music is any less complex than visual art?

To someone who isn't well-trained, who doesn't truly understand and appreciate art, and who has convinced themselves that its all pretty much the same, the forgery is completely satisfactory and a bargain at its price point. But to someone who has an eye for art and the training to go along with it, the forgery is simply horrid and the original is well worth the money invested.

Likewise, if you don't have an ear for the nuances of music, or a system and room capable of reproducing those nuances, then zip cord is probably fine for all your cable needs. If you have a high end system, a well-treated room, and a well-trained ear, then you will probably hear the benefit in better cables. Like all things in high end, there is plenty of snake oil to be found in the cable industry. But there are also definite differences in the quality of cables, like everything else, and they do make a difference depending on the setup they are placed in.

But these arguments about "all wire is the same" and "the only way to tell a difference is from A/B testing and if you can't tell a difference with that then there isn't one" are usually put forth by engineers with a tin ear and no music background whatsoever.
 
you would think that if there was a difference you could hear it within a minute or so unless it takes you time to convince yourself? that's why they line speakers up in a row at HIFI shops so you can A-B them to each other.not to sound like a jerk but if I re wired your speaks with my wire unbeknown to you you would never know the difference lol

Hear a difference? One would hope so.

The difference being musical or the opposite?

Can't say I want to make that call in sixty seconds.

And yes Steve, I'm quite confident that I would detect a change of wire in my system.
 
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