HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray

[Tiberium]

tsd2005 everything you are saying is based on he said she said assumptions! This is what makes you a fanboy because nothing you say has any facts because it has not been released.

 

[tsd2005]

What? You might want to ditch the whole fanboy bull crap and stick to facts and not your opinion.

It isn't an opinion. MPEG2=crap. There just isn't room on a 25GB disc to do a good picture justice. The SOFTWARE is the reason for the poor reviews on discs. It is not the HDMI output or whatever they want you to believe. Sure component is better on the Samsung, but it still doesn't match the HD-DVD PQ.

VC1=BETTER IMAGE.

Now it's also a fact that MPEG2 could work if they had the space. However currently BD is single layered. Dual Layered production is currently very low yield, so its not financially sound to try and release a title that way yet.

When they do release them, I'm sure the PQ will get better. However the COST will be higher I'm sure. That is based on current non-MPEG2 BDs costing $10 more MSRP.

 

[Tiberium]

VC1=BETTER IMAGE.

Both formats support the same video modes. Why are you even talking about high def when neither player can play true 1080p?

 

[tsd2005]

tsd2005 everything you are saying is based on he said she said assumptions! This is what makes you a fanboy because nothing you say has any facts because it has not been released.

I'm a Dealer. I'm not a small Dealer.

It is not an assumption that the Samsung player I put in my house is horrible.

It costs twice as much as the Toshiba. It doesn't match the Toshiba in PQ. It doesn't come close ACCEPT for the UnderWorld title. That title btw has a $40 MSRP.

I'm a BIG Sony dealer. I wanted Sony to win this battle badly. I currently sell a lot of Ruby projectors a month. I sell a lot more LCD projectors. Sony is pushing things in the right direction in the Projector field: Lower Cost, Higher Quality.

I love Sony projectors, I love Sony TVs. Just as I love my Pioneer Elite Plasmas and my Fujitsu plasmas.

The quality etc. is amazing.

I'm not a fan of Toshiba. However if you want a above average TV for very good cost, the price to performance ratio of Toshiba TVs has always been very good. They don't have the PQ of Sony or Mitsu but they're good for their price points.

Now as a big Sony "fan," I wanted to be able to tell my customers that the upcoming Sony BD player would put all worries to rest. So I made a lot of phone calls.

I found out the problem is the SOFTWARE. I found out why there is even a problem.

FACT: MPEG2 needs about 30gigs of space to do a 2 hour movie justice.

Currently BD is only 25gigs and they have sound, etc. to put on the discs. So the PQ is not up to my level of quality, or even the level of quality of HD-DVD.

So I can't tell people the Sony player will be the big answer. I expect it to have higher quality than the Samsung. I expect the remote to be better than what is currently out there. I expect the load times to be better than Samsung, Toshiba, and RCA.

I expect my Pioneer to be even better than that. I expect the Pioneer will whip the others in many categories.

However the BDs will still be done in MPEG2 on 25GB discs. That problem will not disappear anytime soon. Next year at this point BD might be releasing same quality product or BETTER, because the potential is THERE.

Yet by then, I expect Disney & other studios to be releasing HD-DVD titles. Disney is already leaning that way.

The titles will cost less and the players will be closing in on the common consumer price points.

 

[tsd2005]

Both formats support the same video modes. Why are you even talking about high def when neither player can play true 1080p?

Ok this is simple:

To make a good PQ with MPEG2 you need about 30GB of space.

BD is currently only 25GB.

So the titles being released today have poor PQ.

So even if tomorrow Pioneer comes out with their true $1,500 1080p player the picture quality will still be worse than the $500 Toshiba HD-DVD player.

It has nothing to do with the players. It is the software.

VC1 or MPEG4 releases on BD are all being set at $39.95 MSRP (vs $29.95 for normal BD). So those titles (8 by years end!) will blow away the $500 Toshiba HD-DVD player. Of course that player will cost 3 times as much for 8 titles.

 

[Tiberium]

tsd2005 you are not getting the point of both these players SUCK. The first generation players were put out as a gimmick and they do a poor job of everything! Wait until the players have HDMI 1.3 and can support true 1080p with lossless audio then pick out which one will win.

 

[Reverb2009]

As far as I am concerned, Blu-Ray has yet to launch.

I mean did you really expect the Samsung player to be any good?

I didn’t, I excepted it to be a peace of crap, and it’s a peace of crap. Current BD disk are 25GB with MPEG2. MPEG2 can work for Blu-Ray but on 25GB disk it’s being over compressed and were getting artifacts and macro blocking. MPEG2 needs BD50 to work right, and last I heard BD50 works in the lab, but they are still only getting about 20% yields on BD50 disk (not good).

Until Blu-Ray starts using VC-1 or MPEG4, (and it sound like it may be very soon for both) I have no inertest in Blu-Ray. I will be getting my PS3 or games and movies. If Blu-Ray shapes up I will buy a dedicated player.

HD DVD and BLU-RAY’s biggest down fall is software. I don’t see the reason to bitch and mown over this HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray debate, because even if HD DVD is declared the winner, right now it will still fail because of the lack of software. I love my HD-A1, now if I can only get some fu**ing movies for it. Hello Warner? Were is my Batman Begins?

 

[tsd2005]

tsd2005 you are not getting the point of both these players SUCK. The first generation players were put out as a gimmick and they do a poor job of everything! Wait until the players have HDMI 1.3 and can support true 1080p with lossless audio then pick out which one will win.

They don't suck. The Toshiba player is actually quite good with another remote. Sure it has its load issues, but the PQ is amazing on many movies. 1080p or not.

The audio is better than their DVD counterparts already. So I think they're good machines. For someone interested in getting true High Def, it's much better than HDTV. Sure 1080p will be nice, but that is still down the road. Plus 99.95% of people with HDTV don't have 1080p displays!

 

[attyonline]

As far as I am concerned, Blu-Ray has yet to launch.

Now that is an alternate reality!

 

[tsd2005]

As far as I am concerned, Blu-Ray has yet to launch.

I mean did you really expect the Samsung player to be any good?

I didn’t, I excepted it to be a peace of crap, and it’s a peace of crap. Current BD disk are 25GB with MPEG2. MPEG2 can work for Blu-Ray but on 25GB disk it’s being over compressed and were getting artifacts and macro blocking. MPEG2 needs BD50 to work right, and last I heard BD50 works in the lab, but they are still only getting about 20% yields on BD50 disk (not good).

Until Blu-Ray starts using VC-1 or MPEG4, (and it sound like it may be very soon for both) I have no inertest in Blu-Ray. I will be getting my PS3 or games and movies. If Blu-Ray shapes up I will buy a dedicated player.

HD DVD and BLU-RAY’s biggest down fall are software. I don’t see the reason to bitch and mown over this HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray debate, because even if HD DVD is declared the winner, right now it will still fail because of the lack of software. I love my HD-A1, now if I can only get some fu**ing movies for it. Hello Warner? Were is my Batman Begins?

When I was in Vegas for the VSDA stuff, WB said that Batman Begins will be released in September as well as the latest Harry Potter flick.

BD plans for this year are already done, so they will continue to manufacture movies in MPEG2 on 25GB discs.... the ones using higher quality codecs (for disc size) can easily be found, because their MSRP is $10 more.

 

[Reverb2009]

As far as I am concerned, Blu-Ray has yet to launch.

Now that is an alternate reality!

Welcome to my world.

 

[Reverb2009]

When I was in Vegas for the VSDA stuff, WB said that Batman Begins will be released in September as well as the latest Harry Potter flick.

Novmenber, in time for the PS3 launch, was what I was told.

We will see.

 

[Tiberium]

They don't suck. The Toshiba player is actually quite good with another remote. Sure it has its load issues, but the PQ is amazing on many movies. 1080p or not.

Most people run high end DVD players and even with component connections they blow that toshiba player out of the water. Most people who run ML's do not cheap out on their electronics.

The audio is better than their DVD counterparts already. So I think they're good machines. For someone interested in getting true High Def, it's much better than HDTV. Sure 1080p will be nice, but that is still down the road. Plus 99.95% of people with HDTV don't have 1080p displays!

If you think that true 1080p is down the road why worry about it? Just use component with progressive scan and use normal DVD's.

 

[socialxray]

Just to add fuel to the fire here. After some research brought about by this very thread, I will say that from a consumer standpoint it may be better if Sony lost this format war.

After first defending Sony over the root kit fiasco I have never really trusted this company even since then and have avoided their music CDs whenever possible.

Also Sony has this habit of trying to lock customers into all sorts of proprietary formats or keeping customers from using these Sony devices to its fullest potential. For example Sony does not make it easy to view video content on a PSP unless it is from a UMD disk (a format which they control). They even considered locking customers into the ATRAC audio format (another format they control) for the PSP in the beginning. The PSPs mission is to be a mobile media device but Sony tried to make consumers pay for content for the PSP at ever single opportunity. Nothing unethical here but a bit draconian if you will.

Those are just a few examples.

What has finally cinched it for me is the following article. Blu-Ray may be better technology (on paper that is) but I just do not trust Sony anymore.

http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2006/07/joe_kane_on_blu.html

Sorry Sony. We'll always have Paris, I mean the PS2.

 

[Reverb2009]

I find it funny that so many people make personal attacks at Blu-Ray because its Sony’s format when in fact its not Sony’s format but a format that Sony helped develop along with the other members of the Blu-Ray Disc Association.



Who developed Blu-ray?


The Blu-ray Disc format was developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a group of leading consumer electronics, personal computer and media manufacturers, with more than 170 member companies from all over the world. The Board of Directors currently consists of:

Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell Inc.
Hewlett Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Thomson Multimedia
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Pictures
Warner Bros. Entertainment


http://www.blu-ray.com

 

[tsd2005]

Novmenber, in time for the PS3 launch, was what I was told.

We will see.

My stockholder info says 3rd Quarter... So September/October...

 

[tsd2005]

Most people run high end DVD players and even with component connections they blow that toshiba player out of the water. Most people who run ML's do not cheap out on their electronics.

If you think that true 1080p is down the road why worry about it? Just use component with progressive scan and use normal DVD's.

Who/what are you?

You've made some horrendous claims in other posts about quality of product, but now you actually are saying that a High End DVD player is BETTER than a HD-DVD?

Are you on crack? Have you compared the two switching back and forth?

I have.

I even used a Meridian DVD player, quite possibly the best picture in the world in DVD. Guess what? That Toshiba has a better picture and not by a small amount. It is A LOT better. Blacks, sharpness, detail, etc. are just that much better.

Now comparing BD with the Meridian had us noticing the Meridian was its equal or very close to it on many, many titles. Only UnderWorld rocks the Meridian.

Sound wise... I currently like about 33% of the HD-DVD tracks over the best of the best on DVD.

This is because the codecs are different. So HD-DVD has an edge given by software.

You can't take 570p data and hope that it can look better upscaling it to 1080i vs a 1080p data downscaled to 1080i. Good software will kick the best DVD player out of the picture. HD-DVD does this.

It is actually quite worth the money imho. It doesn't have the software yet, so I think buying one now is premature. Buying them when the price drops at Christmas and when there are plenty of good titles is another story.

 

[tsd2005]

I find it funny that so many people make personal attacks at Blu-Ray because its Sony’s format when in fact its not Sony’s format but a format that Sony helped develop along with the other members of the Blu-Ray Disc Association.

I suppose it matter what you think a fact is.

What companies own the proprietary rights to BD? Who gets paid when everyone else makes a BD Player? According to the US patent office who owns BD?

You might not find it so funny when you find the answer is Sony. Sure Sony created a BD forum to go up against the DVD Forum which had already successfully put one product on the market (DVD), and now is backing HD-DVD.

My Sony rep today said he was nervous about BD thinking it would end up like DivX.... dead on arrival.

 

[Reverb2009]

My stockholder info says 3rd Quarter... So September/October...

So what, its still one movie and it will get here eventually. I am not going to loose sleep over it.

But again, if HD DVD is going to be a successful format, it needs software, PERIOD. It is a movie player after all. It’s been out for almost four months now and only has 35 titles available. At this rate do you know what D-Theater and HD DVD will have in common? They will both be good formats that never caught on from a lack of support.

 

[Reverb2009]

I suppose it matter what you think a fact is.

What companies own the proprietary rights to BD? Who gets paid when everyone else makes a BD Player? According to the US patent office who owns BD?

You might not find it so funny when you find the answer is Sony. Sure Sony created a BD forum to go up against the DVD Forum which had already successfully put one product on the market (DVD), and now is backing HD-DVD.

My Sony rep today said he was nervous about BD thinking it would end up like DivX.... dead on arrival.

Your about as confused as a hungry baby in a topless bar.