First time Martin Logan owner needs help completing system!

[mcharb007]

Hi all! I'm a new Martin Logan owner and need your expertise to finish narrowing down and deciding on a new HT/music system. I bought a pair of electro motion ESL's and received a free Dynamo 700w with them. At the time my plan was to only buy speakers but that has snow balled into replacing everything haha.

Currently I have the following equipment:
- Samsung 51" F8500 plasma
- Onkyo TX-SR805 (with fried hdmi board)
- Sony Playstation 3
- Toshiba HD-A2 HDDVD player
- Martin Logan electro motion ESL towers
- Martin Logan Dynamo 700w
- Elemental Designs A2-300 (12" ported 250w sub)

A little info on my living room before I start asking questions. The room is 22x16 with a 10' ceiling that steps up to 11'. That should make it roughly 3500-3700cuft. The living room is open to the kitchen and dining room through a high archway that runs pretty much the whole 22' on one side. The dining room and kitchen are roughly the same 3500cuft as well. Bad attempt at a panorama below.




1st question: Looking at center speakers, I've narrowed it down to either the electromotion c2 or the Motif X. Which center would work better in this room? I want to have very clear dialog so which would be best?

2nd question: I am going to ditch the Onkyo receiver, due to fried hdmi board, and replace it. I have been looking at Denon and Marantz pretty exclusively. I'm pretty set on the Denon 4520ci since I can pick one up for $888. Will this receiver be enough to power the speakers or should I also buy the emotiva xpa-3? I should say that with my current onkyo, we listen at low to moderate volumes mostly but while watching action movies and blu Rays the volume gets turned up pretty high. Was watching Fury yesterday and I believe I had the sound set between -5.0db and 0db. I'm not sure how accurate this number is because it seems like since my hdmi board went out all my sources are naturally at different volumes.

3rd question: The eD was my first real sub and it use to be plenty when I had it in a lot smaller room. That being said, I never considered it to be very "musical" as I felt that although it was awesome during movies, it was very lacking when listening to music. Lately I have been using the Dynamo 700w and have been pretty impressed with this little sub. Even in my large room, this little sub has enough in it to put up a good fight. It sounds so much better than the eD with both movies and especially music. I'm pretty sure I am driving it close to its limit and i am not fond of its tendency to start to "walk" across the floor during higher volume listening. I have decided to sell both subs and buy a bigger better unit. I have been looking at Rythmik, SVS and to a lesser extent PSA. The problem is that now, due to my experience with my current units, I don't know if I should be looking for a ported or sealed unit. My uses are about 60HT/40music. It's placement will probably not be ideal due to WAF. Sub will be placed next to a sectional couch, between it and the wall. I want to spend max $1800. Which sub would you recommend and why?

Sorry for the novel and thanks very much for your help!

 

[roberto]

Hola and welcome.
1) The Motif X is a better match for your Electromotions. I will work in any room, with better integration, because it is an electrostatic center cannel. The C2 is a very well design dynamic center channel and it blends very nicely with the Electromotions, but it is not an electrostatic, so you can still listen a boxy sound coming from it.

2) If your level it not a problem, you can use any of these receivers. If you have different sound pressure level in different inputs, your macros are doing this. The sensitivity of the signals are not adjusted equal. The reason why some are louder than the other inputs.

3) You are saying that you do not use too much high level volume in question 2. And here you are saying that the woofer is walking with heavy bass content. Obviously, it should not. Too much SPL for it and also you can blow it. The Dynamo 700 is a great subwoofer.

Happy listening!

 

[mcharb007]

Hola and welcome.
1) The Motif X is a better match for your Electromotions. I will work in any room, with better integration, because it is an electrostatic center cannel. The C2 is a very well design dynamic center channel and it blends very nicely with the Electromotions, but it is not an electrostatic, so you can still listen a boxy sound coming from it.

2) If your level it not a problem, you can use any of these receivers. If you have different sound pressure level in different inputs, your macros are doing this. The sensitivity of the signals are not adjusted equal. The reason why some are louder than the other inputs.

3) You are saying that you do not use too much high level volume in question 2. And here you are saying that the woofer is walking with heavy bass content. Obviously, it should not. Too much SPL for it and also you can blow it. The Dynamo 700 is a great subwoofer.

Happy listening!

Roberto, thanks for your reply. Let me clarify a little on my listening habits. For most casual tv watching such as cable programming, we listen at lower levels. At those levels the sub performs well and does not "walk". However when we watch a blu Ray, we watch at a lot higher listening levels than we normally would. It's at these levels that the sub is exhibiting the "walking" and getting close to its limit. This is the reason why I want a bigger, better sub.

 

[roberto]

Are you using their spikes? Sometimes this prevents to to them to walk. Also, you are playing a very high level. The volume should be around number 4 at their knob volume level, and 0 dB at the setting subwoofer level at the Onkyo. Get another Dynamo and use two subs instead only one...and will bring the sub SLP down. Just thinking loud. Happy listening!

 

[mcharb007]

Are you using their spikes? Sometimes this prevents to to them to walk. Also, you are playing a very high level. The volume should be around number 4 at their knob volume level, and 0 dB at the setting subwoofer level at the Onkyo. Get another Dynamo and use two subs instead only one...and will bring the sub SLP down. Just thinking loud. Happy listening!

I have the sub set around 4 and the receiver at -7.0db. No spikes because the sub is on tile so just rubber feet.

 

[TomDac]

The KEF r400b sub is designed so both drivers are opposed to each other, eliminating the problem of the sub "walking". This is the same technology in their Blade speaker system. It's a small unit, but very musical.

 

[mcharb007]

The KEF r400b sub is designed so both drivers are opposed to each other, eliminating the problem of the sub "walking". This is the same technology in their Blade speaker system. It's a small unit, but very musical.

I looked up the specs of this sub and I think it's going to be too small for my tastes. The reviews I read said that it is a nice unit but doesn't dig that deep. I don't necessarily need a small unit. The spot where I will more than likely have the sub at is 33x27x30. I've really been looking at the SVS SB13 Ultra or the Rythmik fv15hp. I'm just not real sure if I should get the sealed(ultra) or ported(rythmik).

 

[roberto]

Hola...just a Little question. When you read the specs of your Electromotions, because of them, you knew how good they were? Those specs are very conservative, and does not mean anything of the quality of the sound that you might get through them. You have to listen first, then make up your mind. Trust your ears, not the specs. Specs are meaning less. The specs are just a guide. I could have a product with outstanding specs, and when I listen it, I do not like it at all...or have a product with specs very conservative, and when I listen it, a wow comes after it.
Happy listening.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi there,

I would definitely look into REL and the JL Audio sub options.

Both are stellar companies. Hi tech / hi performance for the money.

The JL Audio E110 lists at $1,500 and could be a giant killer.

Good luck.

GG

PS: All things being equal, a non ported sub should offer better performance and you should consider buying two versus one if budget allows. Much more even bass response.

 

[Duke]

The large volume is probably more than your estimate if you have open doorways. Luckily, you have two subs to work down to 35Hz-40Hz or so and they can be placed to augment each other at your sweet spot. Try making your setup into a nearfield experience by staying closer to your speakers and putting your subwoofer where the wavelength would double into a node covering many lower frequencies at your listening seat. For example, 40' length is the wavelength of a 40 Hz signal. Maybe a calibrated microphone setup like Atmos or a dsp type sub at 250 Hz and below. There is so much you can do.

http://www.mcsquared.com/wavelength.htm would help you work your room by showing how long those wavelengths are.

I started with the same large volume room problem and got advice from a speaker fanatic who builds bespoke horn speakers. The horn guy said the panels would launch a nice vertical wave across the room, quite unlike a conventional speaker, so I like Martin Logan in my room. My house is quite open. Sound pressure goes up and down some stairs, spilling into other floors. Listening to my friend who builds horns, I basically deployed a near field sound setup, pressurizing the house to get that bass and then we adjusted the bass at the listening spot to be spot on. I use two pairs of stacked Descents and one big 30" Fostex sub to do this. I think that had I started over in this day and age instead of years ago, I definitely would consider a DSP like Atmos. A calibrated mike setup and you can save gobs of money. You may not get extreme spl, but it will be balanced.

A more traditional approach would be to up the power and spl. For example, an Onkyo 5509 can be modified by Dave Schulte for a pre processor and adding a A/B solid state amp or ss monos might be what is needed to fill up your huge volume. This is another way to work the room. Gordon, who posted above, loves Pass for good reason.

 

[datastreamcom]

@ mcharb007
Judgeing by the picture, you won't get a single sub to provide the bass you want to feel if you're 15ft away from the sub on a concrete floor. Move the sub closer to where you sit. Wired or wireless, a dynamo500 will give you all the base you want if its nearer to you. If it could touch the furniture you're actually sitting in (without making noise) would be best of all. You'll hear it either way, but feeling it is just as important I think.

Need more deadening on the walls too. Rugs do well.

Recommend another Onkyo for best end to end connectivity, wired or wireless. Solid amp and great array of sound shaping tech. Using a TX-NR809, I have no other signal processing gear and can place the sound stage anywhere in the room. I do use Windows media player for EQ tweaks tho. Onkyo can do it too, but WMP is much quicker to access in my application.