Bright logans

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cadethoerk

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Hey all, I need some help. I have the following system. Aeon i mains, Theater i center, Scrips rears, Depth sub, Rotel RMB 1095 200X5 amp, Rotel RSP 1068 pre amp, Denon 3910 DVD, Scientific Atlanta DVR Cox, and Panasonic plasma 50 in. No power conditioner. The sound is clear but fatiguing and harsh. Ears ring after moderate listening. I have heard systems close to mine sound more open and transparent with no fatigue. What could it be? Any thought would be appreciated.
 

jjcarr

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What interconnects and speaker cables are you using?
 
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Transparent

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Hi Cadethoerk,

I would try the followings first:

1. Repositioning your speakers eg. toe-in, toe-out, move them away from back wall,
side walls etc...

2. Room treatment eg. cover the floor with some "nice" carpet, cover the glass surface or any large shiny objects etc...

Hope these things help. You can search in this forum to get some good tips on what to do with speakers placement and room treatment.

Regards, Transpa.
 
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cadethoerk

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I dont think I have a bright room. I measured the stat panel 4 feet from the back wall and 3 feet from the side wall. I have them toed in so that i see the inner 1/3 of the panel. I am using monster coax digital 12 gage speaker wire and sidewinder rca from the preamp to the amp. I have glass doors covered with sheers and hanging cloth next to mains. Carpet and open behind couch. Thx for any ideas. Whould a line conditioner realy help? Monster or PS Audio?
 

jjcarr

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cadethoerk said:
I dont think I have a bright room. I measured the stat panel 4 feet from the back wall and 3 feet from the side wall. I have them toed in so that i see the inner 1/3 of the panel. I am using monster coax digital 12 gage speaker wire and sidewinder rca from the preamp to the amp. I have glass doors covered with sheers and hanging cloth next to mains. Carpet and open behind couch. Thx for any ideas. Whould a line conditioner realy help? Monster or PS Audio?
I have never known a conditioner to affect the briteness of a system. Clarity and sounstage yes, but not tone.

Rotel stuff isn't overly warm, but shouldn't be bright.

If you are using Rat Shack or Monster speaker cable that could be a factor. The digital interconnect should be fine. I can't say on the Sidewinder, but I think the 12g speaker wire might be the cause.

For a cheap experiment you can get CAT 5 computer network cable from Home Depot, strip the ends, and try that out as speaker cable. Give it time to burn in (about 30-45 hrs) then see if it makes a tonal difference. It's cheaper than buying speaker cable, particularly when you don't know for sure the speaker cable is the problem, and the CAT 5 stuff ususally sounds better than plain wire.

If you don't want to hassle with the CAT 5 you might want to get recomendations for warm sounding speaker cable from the guys here.
 
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aliveatfive

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I'm using the 1068 and it is not bright, so I don't think that it is the problem. I do have the prepro going into a tubed stereo preamp for the front channels, however. Possibly you might consider substituting something with tubes somewhere in the amplfication chain. How long have you had your speakers? MLs are notorious for needing a lot of break-in time. Hope some of this helps.
 

jhorowitz128

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Hello Cadethoerk,

Are your Aeon's brand new? If so, it may take a few hours (50 or so) for them to settle in. Your panels use the new X-stat technology. When I replaced the panels on my Aerius' awhile back, ML sent me the ones with X-stat technology. The shipping carton indicated that those panels are also used on the Aeons. The sound was very bright also after they were installed, but smoothed out after a bit. In any event, I doubt if your problems have anything to do with the Lexan panels on the back of stators, as per a previous post of yours.

As Transparent said, you'll also need to experiment with placement.

Hope this helps. Let us know how things go.
Jeff
 
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cadethoerk

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Great responses

Thx much for all the help!! The Aeons are about 2 months old. I will try the cat 5 trick. The speaker wire is Ultralink 12 gauge. 5 foot runs.
 

Reverb

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jhorowitz128 said:
Hello Cadethoerk,

Are your Aeon's brand new? If so, it may take a few hours (50 or so) for them to settle in. Your panels use the new X-stat technology. When I replaced the panels on my Aerius' awhile back, ML sent me the ones with X-stat technology. The shipping carton indicated that those panels are also used on the Aeons. The sound was very bright also after they were installed, but smoothed out after a bit. In any event, I doubt if your problems have anything to do with the Lexan panels on the back of stators, as per a previous post of yours.

As Transparent said, you'll also need to experiment with placement.

Hope this helps. Let us know how things go.
Jeff

Aeon i, do not use X-Stat, they have the 2nd generation ESL panels. 2nd Generation panels used a new plasma bonded film to produce a cleaner less bright sound over the original film and also came with clear spars. X-Stat use’s this new film but also adds MicroPerf stator panels, and a new vacuum bonding process, that much more effectively bonded the spars to the film.
 
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jjcarr

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cadethoerk said:
Thx much for all the help!! The Aeons are about 2 months old. I will try the cat 5 trick. The speaker wire is Ultralink 12 gauge. 5 foot runs.
When you strip the CAT 5 you'll see there are 5-6 small wires in each run, you'll have to strip them independently then twist them together.

If you search on the web you'll see a more complex recipie for CAT 5 speaker cable, but since you're just doing it to experiment, I'd just do one CAT 5 cable for each terminal on each speaker (2 per speaker) and just use bare stripped ends rather than hassle with connectors. If this does make a difference then you can look into more solid, long-term solutions.

Let us know if that makes a difference.
 
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Transparent

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If you don't mind to try this out (it worked for me), move the speakers closer to the center and don't have them toed in, move your seat closer to the speakers
then you should hear that your speakers sound warmer.

Regards, Transpa.
 

Reverb

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jhorowitz128 said:
Zip3kx07,

Yes, you're correct. I meant the 2nd generation ESL panel. Still found them a bit bright at first.

No problem jHorowitz128,

We all make mistakes, I make my fare share too.
 
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Artar1

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You may have upper midrange sensitivity

Cadethoerk,

You might try all the suggestions listed above. However...

I have listened to Martin Logan loudspeakers for years, but could not tolerate the bright sound they produced, which usually led to listening fatigue and headaches for me. Knowing that many people loved these speakers, I just assumed that I had a sensitivity to ML's upper midrange output. :eek:

Not too long ago, I listened to the Martin Logan Ascent i loudspeakers in a dealer's showroom using Primare equipment and Audioquest cables. I still found the sound to be bright and somewhat harsh, especially on brass instruments. I bought the speakers anyway. :confused:

When the Ascents were delivered to my home and I hooked them up to my Proceed AMP5, Klyne System 7 preamp, Musical Fidelity NuVista 3D CD player, and Transparent cables, I heard a very smooth, rich, and slightly warm sound right out of the box with no brightness or harshness whatsoever. For the first time in 20 years I was able to listen to a pair of MLs for three to four hours with no problems. (You can only imagine how happy I was!) :)

So you may need to change your electronics and cables if the other suggestions do not work for you.

Good luck!
 
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cadethoerk

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Artar1, its funny you should say that. I remember listening to Logans at a local store before I bought my system. The sound the sound was smooth and not harsh. They were being driven by B&K ref 200X7 pre pro. The Rotel amp might be the cause. I'm starting to suspect the Rotel was made to drive B&W speakers that are somewhat muffled. I brought the Aeons closer together and gave them a neutral toe which helped a little. The center is still abrasive though. What do you all think or use about amplification? Thx again all. Christian.
 
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Transparent

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Used Rotel amp before and I can say that Rotel amp is not bright (as jjcarr and aliveatfive already pointed out) but who know? may be that the Rotel and Aeons don't like each other? I suggest that you borrow a different amp from one of your friends or
your local dealer and try it out. People from this club are using all type of amps, from
Mcintosh, Krell, Pass Lab, Audio Research, Bryston, Classe etc.. too many to name them all, and we are all happy with what we are using. So if you can borrow one of the amp as I mentioned above or whatever and try it out then it would be a good start. Remember, this is all part of the fun.

Hope this helps. /Transpa.
 

Kruppy

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Cadethoerk,
I can't comment on the Rotel equipment, however, I was in somewhat the same situation as you when I purchased my SL3s.

I previously was using an Adcom 555II preamp with my current Adcom 5800 amp (Nelson Pass design). At just above normal listening levels, the sound became very bright, harsh and fatiguing to the point that I wondered if I had made a mistake buying the SL3s. Back around June I was lucky enough to come across a new PS Audio PCA-2 pre at a huge discount directly from PS Audio and jumped at it. The change in my system was dramatic and I now completely enjoy the sound.

I'm not saying that changing the electronics is going to solve your issue, however, in my particular experience it made a big improvement. Don't rule out anything and try as many different things as possible. It's what makes this hobby both fun and frustrating.
 
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cadethoerk

Guest
Frustration!

Frustration is more like it. I seems to have taken over my life and it is becoming more difficult to hide it from the wifee. But she has been pretty understanding. I will start at the least expensive and work my way up. Cat 5 speaker wire test, better power strip, then electronics.

On a side note, I was reading some threads on a forum about power conditioners. :eek: What a wide range of oppinions about different models and views. Some saying they are a waste of money others saying they would never live without one. Monster products seem to really get some peoples blood boiling.
What do you guys think?(or gals) Thx :)
 
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