2021 new gen Apple tv 4k Dolby Atmos Problems

[Robert D]

Since both of us had the Atmos issue much more frequently with our original units, I believe there was something different about them, not that it couldn't have been a greater sensitivity to a S/W issue. If most current units exhibit the audio dropouts as infrequently as our replacement units, I expect the problem rarely gets reported, with most people chalking it up to ISP or streaming service issues.

I remain hopeful that a tvOS update will resolve the issue, but I will be surprised if that happens. If the problem gets more frequent than it is now, I can always swap with my gen 1 ATV4k in the family room that nobody is using -- my wife refuses to learn the ATV, Shield, or Tizen apps, sticking with the Roku and Xfinity boxes. My Sony TV in the basement has perfectly good Android TV apps that support DV and Atmos, so there is also that option. In other words, I am not all that motivated to pursue the issue with Apple, as I don't expect a positive outcome.

Yes, I agree that calling in will probably not lead to a positive outcome. Part of me feels like the problem will always be there. It's frustrating that a titan like Apple can't conquer this. Heck, the US is preparing now for a trip to Mars.

Tonight the audio cut out for about 5 seconds on For All Mankind on Apple tv+. The audio, as before, came back on without me having to do anything. I still rewound so I could hear what I missed.

 

[user 49813]

The ATV is probably Apple's only device that does Atmos, though. I am curious if the ATV does more than just pass the Atmos bitstream on to the AVR, which I wouldn't have thought takes much processing power.

That's kind of the common complaint with the AppleTV; it doesn't do bitstream (at least since tvOS10? 11?). It re-encodes everything as LPCM and sends Atmos via MAT 2.0. I wish they would just offer a bitstream option we could toggle, but it would ostensibly affect Siri operation (which I would be more than happy to give up if it meant I could use Atmos without issue - and probably have hi-res lossless to boot). I think there is likely a timing/sync issue with MAT 2.0, but must be something specific to the gen 2 h/w.

 

[user 49813]

I have also observed the unresponsive volume control, which then catches up with multiple volume steps and overshooting the target, which I believe also suggests poorly optimized tvOS software.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one experiencing the volume issue (though sorry you also have to live through it).

The 2nd gen ATV4k was no "upgrade" in my opinion.

I concur. I was happy to purchase though so that I could move my gen 1 unit into the bedroom. Maybe I will switch them back since I don't use Atmos there, but I do enjoy the new remote. I guess I could just order a new remote; who would have thought the answer to my problems is to send Apple more money lol

Also, still haven't received the HDMI cable Apple support is hellbent on having me try.

 

[IraG]

That's kind of the common complaint with the AppleTV; it doesn't do bitstream (at least since tvOS10? 11?). It re-encodes everything as LPCM and sends Atmos via MAT 2.0. I wish they would just offer a bitstream option we could toggle, but it would ostensibly affect Siri operation (which I would be more than happy to give up if it meant I could use Atmos without issue - and probably have hi-res lossless to boot). I think there is likely a timing/sync issue with MAT 2.0, but must be something specific to the gen 2 h/w.

Thanks for the info. That makes a lot of sense. I was puzzled because my Denon receiver says it is receiving an Atmos signal, yet the ATV4k still manages to screw it up. I didn't think the ATV4k was decoding the Atmos as I never hear it adding its own sounds/beeps while streaming Atmos. I too would give up Siri for bitstreaming, though I don't know why bitstreaming should even affect Siri.

 

[IraG]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one experiencing the volume issue (though sorry you also have to live through it).



I concur. I was happy to purchase though so that I could move my gen 1 unit into the bedroom. Maybe I will switch them back since I don't use Atmos there, but I do enjoy the new remote. I guess I could just order a new remote; who would have thought the answer to my problems is to send Apple more money lol

Also, still haven't received the HDMI cable Apple support is hellbent on having me try.

I was hoping the gen 1 remote would work on the gen 2 ATV4k if I decided to swap units. But yeah, the gen 2 remote is the only real "upgrade" in the gen 2 upgrade, yet they still managed to leave a lot of room for improvement there.

I don't see how a better HDMI cable could help, since there aren't any video artifacts that would suggest a HDMI issue. My ATV4k to receiver HDMI cable is so short that cable quality shouldn't be a factor, and it works fine with my gen 1 ATV4k.

 

[user 49813]

I was hoping the gen 1 remote would work on the gen 2 ATV4k if I decided to swap units. But yeah, the gen 2 remote is the only real "upgrade" in the gen 2 upgrade, yet they still managed to leave a lot of room for improvement there.

I don't see how a better HDMI cable could help, since there aren't any video artifacts that would suggest a HDMI issue. My ATV4k to receiver HDMI cable is so short that cable quality shouldn't be a factor, and it works fine with my gen 1 ATV4k.

I agree re: HDMI cable; it's what Apple 2nd level support wants me to try next, so I have to jump through their hoops. But, honestly, the rep I've been working with has been pretty much absent, yet full of excuses for the delays, even blaming problems reaching me on my (Apple) phone. At first, I thought maybe I was actually having an issue with calls, but I've surmised he's just making excuses for continuing to drop the ball in moving this case forward. It's been nearly a month since he said he was going to ship the cable, and I've had no response since when inquiring about the status.

Anyway, back to cables: a few pages back I posted a link to a video where someone mentioned problems with cables too short creating problems, which sounds counterintuitive, yet he was a pro installer, so take it for what it's worth. But, I've already tested several cables of different lengths and brands, so not convinced the one they are shipping is going to change anything, especially given how widespread this issue is. And can't imagine it would cause the volume control issues, if that is indeed somehow related.

edit to add: link to post and video about short cables:
https://www.martinloganowners.com/t...-tv-4k-dolby-atmos-problems.18919/post-198896

 

[IraG]

with cables too short creating problems, whic

I agree re: HDMI cable; it's what Apple 2nd level support wants me to try next, so I have to jump through their hoops. But, honestly, the rep I've been working with has been pretty much absent, yet full of excuses for the delays, even blaming problems reaching me on my (Apple) phone. At first, I thought maybe I was actually having an issue with calls, but I've surmised he's just making excuses for continuing to drop the ball in moving this case forward. It's been nearly a month since he said he was going to ship the cable, and I've had no response since when inquiring about the status.

Anyway, back to cables: a few pages back I posted a link to a video where someone mentioned problems with cables too short creating problems, which sounds counterintuitive, yet he was a pro installer, so take it for what it's worth. But, I've already tested several cables of different lengths and brands, so not convinced the one they are shipping is going to change anything, especially given how widespread this issue is. And can't imagine it would cause the volume control issues, if that is indeed somehow related.

edit to add: link to post and video about short cables:
https://www.martinloganowners.com/t...-tv-4k-dolby-atmos-problems.18919/post-198896

I don't buy the "short cable causing problems" comment. The only issue a short cable might cause is if it produces too much strain on the connectors due to routing limitations. A 3ft cable is already multiple wavelengths of the HDMI signal, so longer lengths will result in increased signal reflections and degradation if the ends of the transmission line are not properly terminated or don't match the cable impedance. That's why very long cable runs can cause problems and why a higher quality HDMI cable can make a difference.

 

[JonFo]

That's kind of the common complaint with the AppleTV; it doesn't do bitstream (at least since tvOS10? 11?). It re-encodes everything as LPCM and sends Atmos via MAT 2.0. I wish they would just offer a bitstream option we could toggle, but it would ostensibly affect Siri operation (which I would be more than happy to give up if it meant I could use Atmos without issue - and probably have hi-res lossless to boot). I think there is likely a timing/sync issue with MAT 2.0, but must be something specific to the gen 2 h/w.

Agreed, a pure bitstream option would be nice, as that would be more robust.
Siri Input would still work, what you'd 'lose' is Siri voice feedback and any button click (which I disable anyway) feedback.
It is definitely a timing issue and one that interacts with the AVR/Processor and even firmware levels on the same models.
I have three Atmos processors, two of which are fed by the same (launch day) ATV4K 2nd gen box, and the Smyth A16 is pickier than the Denon X3600. That rig (90% using the X3600) is very stable in terms of Atmos.

There is one tip I'll pass along that might help others, as it keeps catching me out every couple of months.
It is best if the ATV4K is the last unit powered up (cold boot) in the system if all power has been shutoff.

Why? Like many sources, the ATV reads the EDID (meta-data defining the capabilities of the device on the other end of the HDMI line) and will limit its options to what is read or it defaults to some reasonable lowest-common-denominator (i.e no Atmos). So if no Atmos options are showing up, cold-boot the ATV (and any intervening boxes) and you should have the Atmos options again. Cold-boot = pull the power cord, wait 20 seconds, reconnect the power cord.

Example: my HT system has a first-gen ATV4K (launch day, I'm an early adopter who orders during the keynotes) with a Marantz AV8802A processor that supports Atmos, but my PJ is FauxK (only 1080p on HDMI). Between the 8802 and the ATV I have an HDMI splitter box that tells the ATV (via EDID) the display is 4K capable (so I get Atmos soundtracks), and down-reses to 1080p ahead of the processor. But this box boots faster than the 8802, so it does not have a chance to read the EDID from it and does not report to the ATV that we have Atmos. The fix (for me) is to reboot the splitter, then the ATV is happy to deliver Atmos (no need to do anything on the ATV, as the loss of HDMI forces a new handshake).

 

[user 49813]

So, I've been thinking about this issue a bit and over the past couple days, been wondering about something (my knowledge of the actual HDMI spec and comm protocols are pretty much non-existent, so feel free to shoot this down with facts).

So, I have already replaced the HDMI cable between the ATV and my AVR several times (and still awaiting the cable Apple wants me to try, btw). But, I've begun to think about the rest of the signal chain, i.e., from the AVR to the TV. This weekend I am going to attempt swapping out this cable, too, with the shortest, highest b/w cable that will reach. My thought process here is that even though the signal between ATV and AVR is fine, maybe a problem with comms between the TV and AVR could be affecting it(?). What I don't know, however, is how much bidirectional communication and handshaking occurs with the TV itself, and if it could in anyway influence other parts of the signal chain, thereby affecting Atmos downstream. Like, if the TV asked for a retry for a packet of the video signal (does HDMI even work like this?), it might not cause a noticeable visual artifact we see, but perhaps cause timing issue with the audio further down the chain causing the pops.

I don't know, it seems like a wild and improbable idea, but going to try a different cable anyway in case it affects it some other way outside my improbable theory.

What is everyone's cable run like from their AVR to TV?

 

[user 49813]

Also, to add, I watched a bunch of HDR/Atmos content on Amazon Prime Video last night (Jack Ryan), and did not notice any audio issues. But, as soon as I popped back into Netflix and played DV/Atmos content, popping resumed. Though, I wonder if it's just Prime Video's sucky low bitrate, and if it were as high of quality as Netflix, perhaps it would manifest?

 

[Bonscott]

Agreed, a pure bitstream option would be nice, as that would be more robust.
Siri Input would still work, what you'd 'lose' is Siri voice feedback and any button click (which I disable anyway) feedback.
It is definitely a timing issue and one that interacts with the AVR/Processor and even firmware levels on the same models.
I have three Atmos processors, two of which are fed by the same (launch day) ATV4K 2nd gen box, and the Smyth A16 is pickier than the Denon X3600. That rig (90% using the X3600) is very stable in terms of Atmos.

There is one tip I'll pass along that might help others, as it keeps catching me out every couple of months.
It is best if the ATV4K is the last unit powered up (cold boot) in the system if all power has been shutoff.

Why? Like many sources, the ATV reads the EDID (meta-data defining the capabilities of the device on the other end of the HDMI line) and will limit its options to what is read or it defaults to some reasonable lowest-common-denominator (i.e no Atmos). So if no Atmos options are showing up, cold-boot the ATV (and any intervening boxes) and you should have the Atmos options again. Cold-boot = pull the power cord, wait 20 seconds, reconnect the power cord.

Example: my HT system has a first-gen ATV4K (launch day, I'm an early adopter who orders during the keynotes) with a Marantz AV8802A processor that supports Atmos, but my PJ is FauxK (only 1080p on HDMI). Between the 8802 and the ATV I have an HDMI splitter box that tells the ATV (via EDID) the display is 4K capable (so I get Atmos soundtracks), and down-reses to 1080p ahead of the processor. But this box boots faster than the 8802, so it does not have a chance to read the EDID from it and does not report to the ATV that we have Atmos. The fix (for me) is to reboot the splitter, then the ATV is happy to deliver Atmos (no need to do anything on the ATV, as the loss of HDMI forces a new handshake).

I think I will send this post to my wife next time she complains and says I can‘t figure all this stuff out. I just want to watch TV. Here you go try this I”m going to work.

 

[JonFo]

But, I've begun to think about the rest of the signal chain, i.e., from the AVR to the TV. This weekend I am going to attempt swapping out this cable, too, with the shortest, highest b/w cable that will reach. My thought process here is that even though the signal between ATV and AVR is fine, maybe a problem with comms between the TV and AVR could be affecting it(?).

You are correct in that the handshake between the AVR and the TV is how the capabilities of the TV are propagated to the source device. I believe (not researched in detail) that the AVR handshakes with the TV and caches the video capabilities of the display, then when a source (ATV) handshakes with the AVR, it blends the display device capabilities along with its own audio abilities into a single EDID response.
Now, what I do NOT know for sure is how often that handshake takes place, as it could well be on-demand, such that when the ATV asks for EDID, the AVR turns around and queries the display.

A cable with borderline capabilities might be a source of problems if it causes delays in the handshakes or other exchanges leading to some of the issues being discussed. So definitely worth trying a different (hopefully better) cable to the display.

 

[Robert D]

So, I've been thinking about this issue a bit and over the past couple days, been wondering about something (my knowledge of the actual HDMI spec and comm protocols are pretty much non-existent, so feel free to shoot this down with facts).

So, I have already replaced the HDMI cable between the ATV and my AVR several times (and still awaiting the cable Apple wants me to try, btw). But, I've begun to think about the rest of the signal chain, i.e., from the AVR to the TV. This weekend I am going to attempt swapping out this cable, too, with the shortest, highest b/w cable that will reach. My thought process here is that even though the signal between ATV and AVR is fine, maybe a problem with comms between the TV and AVR could be affecting it(?). What I don't know, however, is how much bidirectional communication and handshaking occurs with the TV itself, and if it could in anyway influence other parts of the signal chain, thereby affecting Atmos downstream. Like, if the TV asked for a retry for a packet of the video signal (does HDMI even work like this?), it might not cause a noticeable visual artifact we see, but perhaps cause timing issue with the audio further down the chain causing the pops.

I don't know, it seems like a wild and improbable idea, but going to try a different cable anyway in case it affects it some other way outside my improbable theory.

What is everyone's cable run like from their AVR to TV?

The tech at Apple suggested this so I tried swapping out my cable. Made zero difference. All of my cables are also high quality Wire World cables. That was back in spring.

 

[Robert D]

http://wireworldcable.com/index.html

 

[JonFo]

BTW- The new album from 'The Weekend', Dawn FM is a stunningly good Atmos mix!
Very active object usage, they are everywhere, very crisp sound.

Playing via the ATV4K using Apple Music.

This album really shines on my rig, as the subterranean low-end is there (and clean), but it punches like crazy (when called to) thanks to the MBMs. The huge center is well-exercised as well.

Reminder: turn OFF DynamicEQ and do NOT jack up the tops, as those destroy the 3D positioning.

I hope this album releases on BluRay, as a higher res/dynamic range, would make this even better.

 

[Robert D]

BTW- The new album from 'The Weekend', Dawn FM is a stunningly good Atmos mix!
Very active object usage, they are everywhere, very crisp sound.

Playing via the ATV4K using Apple Music.

This album really shines on my rig, as the subterranean low-end is there (and clean), but it punches like crazy (when called to) thanks to the MBMs. The huge center is well-exercised as well.

Reminder: turn OFF DynamicEQ and do NOT jack up the tops, as those destroy the 3D positioning.

I hope this album releases on BluRay, as a higher res/dynamic range, would make this even better.

Automatic For the People by REM sounds good too.

 

[user 49813]

Quick update from Apple Support (verbatim):

"Hey yes its just taking longer due to everything along with not just holidays but the slow delays to due to manufacturing shortages and not enough people working. There are covid restrictions going on for the new variant that is out there…

I would suggest try by one and then return it if it doesnt work but engineers say this could be the issue so a new one could potentially resolve the issue. So id just go and buy one and keep the receipt."

I still haven't had a chance to try a different/shorter cable from AVR to TV, but hopefully this weekend. I've also ordered the referenced Belkin cable as I don't feel like waiting on Apple any longer; it should be here tomorrow. Will post results.

Another data point: was watching Netflix content that was Atmos and 4kUHD, but not HDR, DV, etc. and received the popping/muting.

 

[IraG]

Quick update from Apple Support (verbatim):

"Hey yes its just taking longer due to everything along with not just holidays but the slow delays to due to manufacturing shortages and not enough people working. There are covid restrictions going on for the new variant that is out there…

I would suggest try by one and then return it if it doesnt work but engineers say this could be the issue so a new one could potentially resolve the issue. So id just go and buy one and keep the receipt."

I still haven't had a chance to try a different/shorter cable from AVR to TV, but hopefully this weekend. I've also ordered the referenced Belkin cable as I don't feel like waiting on Apple any longer; it should be here tomorrow. Will post results.

Another data point: was watching Netflix content that was Atmos and 4kUHD, but not HDR, DV, etc. and received the popping/muting.

I have had it happen on very dark scenes in Atmos/DV programming, so I didn't think it required higher video stream bitrates, which I assumed DV and HDR tended to be, so your observation of the problem occurring during a non-HDR program isn't very surprising. I have never observed the problem on HBOmax Atmos/DV programming, and I just finished watching the entire Matrix movie series.

I am getting quite disgusted with the ATV and Apple's minimal effort on the product line. Though I do like the polished hardware, I have wasted a lot of time looking for features that I was sure had to be hidden somewhere, such as being able to see how much storage space was left, and disabling autoplay. The constant nagging to update is also getting quite annoying.

 

[Robert D]

Quick update from Apple Support (verbatim):

"Hey yes its just taking longer due to everything along with not just holidays but the slow delays to due to manufacturing shortages and not enough people working. There are covid restrictions going on for the new variant that is out there…

I would suggest try by one and then return it if it doesnt work but engineers say this could be the issue so a new one could potentially resolve the issue. So id just go and buy one and keep the receipt."

I still haven't had a chance to try a different/shorter cable from AVR to TV, but hopefully this weekend. I've also ordered the referenced Belkin cable as I don't feel like waiting on Apple any longer; it should be here tomorrow. Will post results.

Another data point: was watching Netflix content that was Atmos and 4kUHD, but not HDR, DV, etc. and received the popping/muting.

Oh wow, you found a show that was Atmos and not dolby Vision! Everything I see anywhere seems to have both. I suppose a good test would be to turn off dolby vision on the Apple and then stream an Atmos movie.

Since you heard the noise on that show, its probably not needed for me to test it. Thanks for telling us!

 

[Robert D]

I have had it happen on very dark scenes in Atmos/DV programming, so I didn't think it required higher video stream bitrates, which I assumed DV and HDR tended to be, so your observation of the problem occurring during a non-HDR program isn't very surprising. I have never observed the problem on HBOmax Atmos/DV programming, and I just finished watching the entire Matrix movie series.

I am getting quite disgusted with the ATV and Apple's minimal effort on the product line. Though I do like the polished hardware, I have wasted a lot of time looking for features that I was sure had to be hidden somewhere, such as being able to see how much storage space was left, and disabling autoplay. The constant nagging to update is also getting quite annoying.

Im good with all of the features and how the Apple works because I have been toying with it nearly a year now. What pisses me off is how they seem oblivious to this problem and dont seem to be doing a thing about it.

I too have never heard the problem on HBO Max. I have heard it however on Apple Tv + and Netflix. Ive watched a few movies in Atmos on Amazon and never heard it, but dont feel comfortable saying there is no problem on there because I havent watched much.

Has anyone tested Amazon for Atmos problems, watched many hours?