Why Center at all??

[akm3]

So, matching a center for Martin Logan is tough just due to physics. Unless you get another full size tower speaker matching your left right, you won't get a good match. That makes it tough to see the screen.

We have the best imaging speakers ever.

Why not just...don't run a center? Let the great imaging place a great phantom center from the main left right.

What do you give up in this scenario other then perhaps wider seating options?

 

[Hocky]

Unless you're sitting in the dead middle, your dialog is pulled left or right. If you're the only person in the room watching the movie, you're good to go.

 

[roberto]

Hola. Yes, with Martin Logan you get one of the best sound stage image possible in a stereo sound system. But if you have a HT, the info at the DVD comes in several channels, usually in 5.1. This info has more than 70dB of channel separation, and this is the reason why you need a center channel. The dialog of the movie, will be totally lost if you do not use a center channel. A reason too, why ML made the center channel speakers like the Stagex and Motifx. This is, to provide the best matching center channel quality sound to our electrostatic speakers. If you use a stereo two channel system, there is no need for the center, and the phantom center will be provided by the left and right speakers info. But you will not get the benefit for movies or DVD concerts only, the other channels and the .1 sub-woofer channel. This is a separate bass info too. Happy listening!

 

[Guitarist]

The imaging is also much better if one listens to 5 channel classical SACDs with a center channel.

 

[coolcobramatt]

Back when 5.1 was all the rage, I had the full-on surround system but since I went back to 2 channel stereo years ago, I've never felt the need to return to surround again. Sometimes I kick around the idea of adding a center but so far I have remained happy with the presentation I have with 2 channel.

Most of my listening is home theater for reference.

 

[JayGee]

So, matching a center for Martin Logan is tough just due to physics. Unless you get another full size tower speaker matching your left right, you won't get a good match. That makes it tough to see the screen.

I believe I have found the compatible center channel with the Paradigm C5. For the first time, after using a Stage for a few years, I feel the center is doing its job and keeping up with my CLX L/R!

 

[akm3]

Well I run Montages right now with Fresco i rears and a fresco center.

It is just better without the fresco center, so I disabled it. I guess I have 4.1 but it sounds better. Dialog is not 'lost' when watching a movie, we have one relatively narrow couch and it sounds fine at all three places.

When I turn the center on imaging collapses and it is very obvious the much of the sound is coming from one box below the TV. It loses the airy sound. It gets 'chesty' sounding.

Obviously I need to work on my placement of that center channel, but it seems easier to just dispense with it.

Of course Martin Logan makes center channels, HT people don't take a company seriously if it doesn't have Centers. But I again will ask, is it really necessary? My experience says no.

When I used to own Vista's and Aerius before that my experience was even more pronounced towards no center channel because the match became that much more difficult.

I guess I'll experiment more.

 

[adamdpayne]

But I again will ask, is it really necessary? My experience says no.

When I used to own Vista's and Aerius before that my experience was even more pronounced towards no center channel because the match became that much more difficult.

I guess I'll experiment more.

To each their own of course, but having gone from Montis L/R and Motif X, to just Montis (had a defective woofer in the Motif X but ML's customer service was, as always, fantastic), back to Montis L/R and Motif X I definitely won't be going phantom center any time soon. Even moving a foot left or right of dead center creates a noticeable shift in dialogue and having the center make dialogue much clearer and intelligible.

 

[JordanD]

Ever since I added my Motif I have noticed a huge difference in the 2.1 vs. 5.1 and the difference is great! I love my Motif and I am really happy with my choice in it, so my inclination to the question is yes it is necessary.

 

[akm3]

Well I'm convinced to play with it more based on these great reviews.

Do you guys think a Fresco is a good match for Mosaics? Thats what I have now and aren't happy with. Am I starting from a bad pairing?

 

[projectormovielover]

The fresco should be spot on with your Mosaics with each of them having the 4 3.5 magnetic drivers

 

[akm3]

The fresco should be spot on with your Mosaics with each of them having the 4 3.5 magnetic drivers

Thats what I would have thought!! However, when I enable the center channel, the whole stereo image collapses into about a 2' square right over the center channel, vs running phantom it is open and wide and like a 15' square around the whole TV.

As soon as that center is on everything is just diminished to a tiny space.

 

[khenegar]

center y/n

I never use the center channel when listening to music. one time i asked Martin Logan about this and they said that if i am seriously listening to music do not use the center channel just the L/R. if i have a three channel SACD i sometimes use the center and then i prefer the two channel instead. Only time i use the center channel is when watching a movie and then who care if it doesn't match the the L/R. Sometime I listen to music in prologic IIx with the center channel off only. to me it sounds great. My processor is a Lexicon MC12 v5 eq. I know it's old but it has features that not even the newer processor out there have now. only time i would consider a center channel with music is if it was a perfect match to the L/R speakers.

 

[akm3]

Perhaps we are experiencing a Lexicon thing? I use an even older Lexicon MC-1 v4 and also prefer music with no center.

 

[JordanD]

I was going to point fingers at your pre next. Just a thought though, do you have the levels for the channels set correctly? I have no experience with Lexicon so I am not really sure what capabilities they have. But if you have (for example) the levels set really low on the center and higher on the L/R it could make the image seem to "collapse."

 

[roberto]

Hola. The channel separation between any digital DVD channel is better than -70dB!!! If you are getting dialog info when the center is unplug, then you are not truly having a 5.1 DTS or Dolbly signal from your DVD. Early DVDs came with an audio signal where you can try and to listen this separation, and to listen the 5 channels one by one. As an example, Harry Potter, the music and effects are not part of the dialog at the center channel. When listening to the music, I use Stereo mode only. But when playing a DVD Concert blu ray or not, I use Dolby or DTS THX setting. In my room, as an example, the level of the center channel is set at 0dB, the L and R CLXs at +3.5dB and the rears are at -4dB. My room is small, and I assure you that I have an outstanding sense of the stage size image audio with DVD. Happy listening!

 

[Hocky]

Hola. The channel separation between any digital DVD channel is better than -70dB!!! If you are getting dialog info when the center is unplug, then you are not truly having a 5.1 DTS or Dolbly signal from your DVD. Early DVDs came with an audio signal where you can try and to listen this separation, and to listen the 5 channels one by one. As an example, Harry Potter, the music and effects are not part of the dialog at the center channel. When listening to the music, I use Stereo mode only. But when playing a DVD Concert blu ray or not, I use Dolby or DTS THX setting. In my room, as an example, the level of the center channel is set at 0dB, the L and R CLXs at +3.5dB and the rears are at -4dB. My room is small, and I assure you that I have an outstanding sense of the stage size image audio with DVD. Happy listening!

When you use a 5.1 source with the center turned off, all center channel audio is mixed into the front mains.

 

[JayGee]

When I turn the center on imaging collapses and it is very obvious the much of the sound is coming from one box below the TV. It loses the airy sound. It gets 'chesty' sounding.

AKM3

Have you verified that all three speakers are in phase? What you describe can also be caused by a phase issue.

 

[roberto]

Yes hocky, then you are mixing signals. I do not want to do this. When you do this, the software built in your digital processor, enters in a mode of an algebraic addition where phase takes a roll. it is not just mixing signals. That would be a very difficult task. I rather have a center channel with good quality than mix this signal, with all respect. Happy listening.

 

[Hocky]

Yes hocky, then you are mixing signals. I do not want to do this. When you do this, the software built in your digital processor, enters in a mode of an algebraic addition where phase takes a roll. it is not just mixing signals. That would be a very difficult task. I rather have a center channel with good quality than mix this signal, with all respect. Happy listening.

No argument, but phantom center does work OK as long as you're the only person in the room.