Another member appreciating Martin Logan parts support who thinks pricing is realistic. Read why.

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Duke

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
137
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Location
Madison, WI
I feel grateful that Martin Logan supports their legacy products. I mentioned this a few times. My speakers are more than 20 years old and can still be refurbished. That is wild.

Having the option to keep your music sound the same for that long is something that became very important to me.
There is a cost for keeping that option alive and some describe it as "obscene pricing" out of frustration, but perhaps they feel pricing is more than they value their speaker or don't know there are sunk costs needed to maintain the option to refurbish. Obscene (pricing) is a pretty visceral term to describe any option. With Martin Logan there is an option to avoid the junkyard and lose the timbre and PRaT of your favorite music. Losing your music is "obscene" if what you need is a panel a manufacturer does not support and it forces you to buy a new speaker. That does not happen at Martin Logan. You can buy replacement panels and some parts. They provide support and recommendations.
We know a new replacement speaker will not sound the same as what you listen to now.

There is a reason why I post today and this is my story to share: I replaced my speaker panels in 2022. I recently developed a small flutter in one panel that caused vibration noise. I emailed Martin Logan customer technical support. Brian replied the day I provided a requested short video of the issue and wrote back with something I did not expect. He wrote my replacement panel would be replaced with a new panel under their FIVE YEAR WARRANTY (manufacturer's defect only I assume).

I was never told there was a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY. This is amazing.

This transpired earlier this week. I voluntarily decided to post this message to share a different viewpoint regarding any pricing negativity:
Higher than anticipated pricing is not the same as obscene pricing. Personally, I think the pricing is realistic and you can disagree with me or not because my feeling is subjective.
Martin Logan is a real high value speaker line at their price points and continued support of their speakers are a huge bonus.

Like most people, I am getting beat up everywhere I go with higher pricing and get frustrated but it doesn't apply with Martin Logan.
 
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I feel grateful that Martin Logan supports their legacy products. I mentioned this a few times. My speakers are more than 20 years old and can still be refurbished. That is wild.

Having the option to keep your music sound the same for that long is something that became very important to me.
There is a cost for keeping that option alive and some describe it as "obscene pricing" out of frustration, but perhaps they feel pricing is more than they value their speaker or don't know there are sunk costs needed to maintain the option to refurbish. Obscene (pricing) is a pretty visceral term to describe any option. With Martin Logan there is an option to avoid the junkyard and lose the timbre and PRaT of your favorite music. Losing your music is "obscene" if what you need is a panel a manufacturer does not support and it forces you to buy a new speaker. That does not happen at Martin Logan. You can buy replacement panels and some parts. They provide support and recommendations.
We know a new replacement speaker will not sound the same as what you listen to now.

There is a reason why I post today and this is my story to share: I replaced my speaker panels in 2022. I recently developed a small flutter in one panel that caused vibration noise. I emailed Martin Logan customer technical support. Brian replied the day I provided a requested short video of the issue and wrote back with something I did not expect. He wrote my replacement panel would be replaced with a new panel under their FIVE YEAR WARRANTY (manufacturer's defect only I assume).

I was never told there was a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY. This is amazing.

This transpired earlier this week. I voluntarily decided to post this message to share a different viewpoint regarding any pricing negativity:
Higher than anticipated pricing is not the same as obscene pricing. Personally, I think the pricing is realistic and you can disagree with me or not because my feeling is subjective.
Martin Logan is a real high value speaker line at their price points and continued support of their speakers are a huge bonus.

Like most people, I am getting beat up everywhere I go with higher pricing and get frustrated but it doesn't apply with Martin Logan.
Wow very well said Duke, and I for one agree with you. When I set out to get either a pair of Odysseys or Prodigies on the used market that the possibility of them needing new panels was very high. I would have loved to have found a pair of Prodigies but my pair of Odysseys came up at a very reputable shop in Chicago so I drove there from the Detroit area and had a listen to these speakers and purchased them for just under $2000. They were 22 years old so yep I figured they needed a pair of new panels so I made that purchase too also for just under $2000. I also converted them to active crossovers for the woofers and ordered new woofers of my liking for another $500. So I have just under $4500 into my basically new Odysseys now and am completely loving the music they make. As for the ridiculous pricing I just don’t get it, my Odysseys when production was stopped cost $6500 new so you can see where I just don’t see the claim of ridiculous pricing.
 
I 100% agree. About 3 years ago, I paid $1400 for new SL3 panels. It was either that, or nothing because, while the speakers were still working, they did not sound great, and would have been tough to sell. Now they sound better than new, with better panels, and upgraded Caps. I would place my SL3's somewhere equivalent to the current model ElectroMotion ELSX for $4500 and the ESL9's at $7500. Except that I like the Oak trims on my SL3's far better than any of the new models!
 
I agree also. Had SL3's for 20 yrs w/ 1 panel replacement ($600!). I listen to them at my friend's place and still always impressed ( especially driven w/ VTL MB 250's). The 11A follows in the same vein - a relative bargain since it includes the subs- and the reassurance that ML will continue support. Definitely makes it attractive purchasing used knowing the company has strong support.
 
One more to chime in saying I agree pricing is fair and that we are all lucky they still support producing legacy panels.

I have a pair of 30-year-old Sequels I bought new in 1993, that will need their panels replaced in the next year or two. It's very reassuring that I can buy new ones.

I repaneled my Monoliths and an SL3 (now my SL3XC center) back in 2006, and 17 years later, they perform as well as the day I installed them. So the replacements are extremely high-quality and durable.

This legacy support is what gives me confidence that I can buy any new model and that I'll be able to keep it running for a long time.
 
And another! I picked up a pair of Prodigy's used on ebay for $805 with one panel working and the other needed to be soldered. After soldering it worked okay but I knew it was not near how they should sound so i ordered new panels anyway. Used Prodigy's $805, $450 gas and traveling expenses, about $2900 for the new panels All in $4155 and I could not be happier. Martin Logan support and panel/parts pricing is bar none the best in high end audio.
 
And another! I picked up a pair of Prodigy's used on ebay for $805 with one panel working and the other needed to be soldered. After soldering it worked okay but I knew it was not near how they should sound so i ordered new panels anyway. Used Prodigy's $805, $450 gas and traveling expenses, about $2900 for the new panels All in $4155 and I could not be happier. Martin Logan support and panel/parts pricing is bar none the best in high end audio.
Ron is great to work with too. The only frustrating part for me was waiting for the panels to get done. I think it was about 3 or 4 months, but Ron told me before I ordered them that it would take that long. It was worth the wait. Another thing that happily surprised me was that ML did not require me to put any money down before they built my Prodigy panels. They dont have you pay until they ship. Kinda surprises me. If I were them id be worried someone might pull out and decide they dont want them after they are built. I guess they figure someone else is bound to order some in the near future. Hats off to their service.
 
I see it slightly differently. One thing you're forgetting, is that the panel is a consumable item. It is not like a cone driver, where it is (generally) installed for the life of the speaker.

Unless the panels are in a clinically clean, dedicated room; and well maintained, then you will more than likely be replacing them at least once in the speakers' lifetime.

Conflate that with the fact that they are a specialist item, and can't be repaired at your average speaker re-coning shop, and you have (for me at least) a different situation.

I know that ML crow that they don't make anything on the panels (and maybe that's true) - but if the panels truly cost what we pay for spares, then there couldn't be much margin on the rest of the speaker! Also if it were true, then something is wrong because it's just cutting steel, plastic sheet and glue. They've even sold the simplicity of the things as a benefit in marketing material!

Granted, there is significant IP contained within.
 
I see it slightly differently. One thing you're forgetting, is that the panel is a consumable item. It is not like a cone driver, where it is (generally) installed for the life of the speaker.

Unless the panels are in a clinically clean, dedicated room; and well maintained, then you will more than likely be replacing them at least once in the speakers' lifetime.

Conflate that with the fact that they are a specialist item, and can't be repaired at your average speaker re-coning shop, and you have (for me at least) a different situation.

I know that ML crow that they don't make anything on the panels (and maybe that's true) - but if the panels truly cost what we pay for spares, then there couldn't be much margin on the rest of the speaker! Also if it were true, then something is wrong because it's just cutting steel, plastic sheet and glue. They've even sold the simplicity of the things as a benefit in marketing material!

Granted, there is significant IP contained within.
When you consider that a replacement set of Prodigy panels costs about $3000, the closet comparison to a model ML makes now is the ESL15a. Those cost about $29,000.
If I wasn't able to purchase replacement panels for mine, I'd probably just have thrown these speakers out and bought cone speakers. Many of us would do the same because spending $29k on a pair of speakers right now is out of the question for me. I'm very thankful they still produce panels.
 
Ron is great to work with too. The only frustrating part for me was waiting for the panels to get done. I think it was about 3 or 4 months, but Ron told me before I ordered them that it would take that long. It was worth the wait. Another thing that happily surprised me was that ML did not require me to put any money down before they built my Prodigy panels. They dont have you pay until they ship. Kinda surprises me. If I were them id be worried someone might pull out and decide they dont want them after they are built. I guess they figure someone else is bound to order some in the near future. Hats off to their service.

When you consider that a replacement set of Prodigy panels costs about $3000, the closet comparison to a model ML makes now is the ESL15a. Those cost about $29,000.
If I wasn't able to purchase replacement panels for mine, I'd probably just have thrown these speakers out and bought cone speakers. Many of us would do the same because spending $29k on a pair of speakers right now is out of the question for me. I'm very thankful they still produce panels.
Robert both you and amey01 have hit the nail on the head. The price of a set of new replacement panels is nothing compared to what is available in today's lineup.
 
I would say that if an expensive replacement part fails after about a year then a warranty replacement is something I would expect. That being said, I do appreciate the availability of panels for all models--especially since they no longer make a full range ESL--CLS or CLX. The panel is certainly a significant portion of the cost of a new ESL.

I dispute characterizing panels as "consumable". They may need to be replaced eventually, just as a cone speaker may develop surround rot eventually. They're not like tires, or printer toner. Some people seem to think panels more than 5 years old are automatically ready for the trash heap. The fact that they offer a 5 year warranty should tell you something about the average life expectancy. But Duke got an outlier on the bathtub curve, and ML made good on it.

I also acknowledge there is a cost associated with staying tooled up to produce panels of every size and shape ever made by ML. Above all, if we want to be able to replace parts in our speakers after 10 or 20 years then Martin Logan has to stay in business. They won't if they lose a lot of money on replacement panels.
 
They're not like tires, or printer toner. Some people seem to think panels more than 5 years old are automatically ready for the trash heap.

If you don't think they're consumable, consider this. So you're buying a used pair of Summits. Same speaker, same model, same price, same dealer.

Option A: A 2005 model Summit with brand new panels.
Option B: A newer 2010 model Summit with original panels.

What would you take? Be honest.

Now consider a used pair of Focal Utopias. Same speaker, same model, same price, same dealer.

Option A: A 2005 model with all the drivers replaced.
Option B: A 2010 model with original drivers.

What would you take?

Personally, I'd see a pair of Utopias with all the drivers replaced as something of an alarm - how abused were they, what's wrong with them?

But the new panels? Yes please. A 2010 speaker on original panels? I'll pass.
 
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If you don't think they're consumable, consider this. So you're buying a used pair of Summits. Same speaker, same model, same price, same dealer.

Option A: A 2005 model Summit with brand new panels.
Option B: A newer 2010 model Summit with original panels.

What would you take? Be honest.

Now consider a used pair of Focal Utopias. Same speaker, same model, same price, same dealer.

Option A: A 2005 model with all the drivers replaced.
Option B: A 2010 model with original drivers.

What would you take?

Personally, I'd see a pair of Utopias with all the drivers replaced as something of an alarm - how abused were they, what's wrong with them?

But the new panels? Yes please. A 2010 speaker on original panels? I'll pass.
Id take the ones with new panels and the others with new drivers. I wouldnt see any difference there. One could argue that the panels had to be replaced because the original owner abused them. Both the panels and drivers wear out.

Id buy a same model car that was 5 years older if it had a brand new engine rather than the 5 year newer one with a used engine.
 
I replaced my ReQuests last year and They sound amazing now, don't know what model you would need to buy to replace them but new panels were $2100 US, bought them they were 26 years old, they still sounded good but now they are even better. Anyone know which model you would need to buy to replace these.
 
Anyone know which model you would need to buy to replace these.
Minimum the 13A, so $18K
But one could argue the 15 is the 'replacement', as the Neolith is the replacement for the Monolith, which was the next one up the line from the reQuest.
 
Thanks Jonathan the fellow that I bought these from replaced them with 13As so I didn't go wrong buying them even though I replaced the panels and didn't really have to at that time just thought they were 27 years old so I did it anyway he was an older fellow like myself and said he never abused them and you could tell should have them for quite a while now, also just went from ESL c to the focus and wow what a difference that made very impressed, rears are ethos, atmos are in ceiling Motion MC6s I have a question I have my reQuests bi amped and saw a fellow with a set of I think they were reQuests and ethos set up together for a front stage said it really opened up the sweet spot and wondering your opinion on a setup like this.

Dave
 
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