Vignette or Fresco Anyone ? Your thoughts are welcomed !

[Wayne]

Esquire. good luck at Magnolia this weekend.... let us know what you see and hear. Also, do you know if Magnolia discounts ML..... I thought others have said they discount "25 percent"?...... and would that apply to mail orders as well? Just a thought if you get a chance.

 

[Steve]

You're welcome. I can recall that the Clarity lacked the low end that is existent in the Mosaic, it also had a narrower sweet spot. I thought the Clarity is not as full sounding than the Mosaics. The Mosaics having a more balanced frequency range (treble,. mid-range, & bass). It sounded a lot closer to an Aeon i to me.

I don't understand how the low end would sound different on either speaker, since I believe it is common between the two. It sure looks that way in the pictures.

I have had the Claritys for about a year now. When I first got them, I thought they were a little thin on the low end for certain types of music. Based on advice from members of the forum, I found a used REL Stratus III sub on audiogon. I feel it matches very well with my mains, and fills out the music that sounded thin before. Over-all, I really like the combination of the two for music. I did not try any of the ML subs, because at the time, they did not have one in my price range. I'm sure the ML subs would also sound very nice in combination.

 

[Wayne]

Thanks Steve,
What are your thoughts on the narrower sweet spot ...Clarity vs Mosaic ? And as to what you mentioned in response to my thread, a subwoofer is a must, I will give ML a chance to compete with the Rel lineup, but that will be a different thread. I have heard great things about the Grotto and have read "one" review of the Dynamo... it was also a positive review.

 

[pat17]

Thanks Steve,
What are your thoughts on the narrower sweet spot ...Clarity vs Mosaic ? And as to what you mentioned in response to my thread, a subwoofer is a must, I will give ML a chance to compete with the Rel lineup, but that will be a different thread. I have heard great things about the Grotto and have read "one" review of the Dynamo... it was also a positive review.

In both case - Mosaic and Clarity - the frequency response is limited at 46 Hz. Both need a sub-woofer for an accurate audio reproduction - especially if you keep in mind that I really love organ music.

Personally I use my two Claritys with one single Grotto, and it's perfect. Tuning the Grotto has been somewhat delicate to make it sound well both gfor audio and HT, but in the end the result is absolutely perfect.

 

[Steve]

Thanks Steve,
What are your thoughts on the narrower sweet spot ...Clarity vs Mosaic ? And as to what you mentioned in response to my thread, a subwoofer is a must, I will give ML a chance to compete with the Rel lineup, but that will be a different thread. I have heard great things about the Grotto and have read "one" review of the Dynamo... it was also a positive review.

My experience has been the same as Pat17. It took a while to adjust the sub to properly match for both HT and audio...even different kinds of audio. I think I've got it right now and I'm very happy with the result.

Regarding the narrow sweet spot, that was my biggest concern before I purchased as well. In my room, the speakers are about 10 ft. in front of the couch, which is about 5 ft. in front of the bar (that leads to the kitchen). Whenever I am concentrating on really listening, I am always in one of those two places. I have the speakers tilted slightly upwards, to provide a nice sweet spot for both sitting on the couch as well as sitting or standing at the bar. The fullness and imaging drops off outside the sweet spot. However, I don't really notice this because if I'm not sitting listening, it's just background music.

BTW, I do not use the upfiring tweeters because I found them very distracting on much of the music my wife and I listen to.

Unfortunately, I can't provide a comparison because I've never really auditioned the Mosiac, Grotto, or Dynamo. However, I've heard very good things about ML subs and the ATF technology. I'm following the Fresco/Dynamo discussions very closely, because that's what I'm thinking about for a seperate HT in the house we are building. Unfortunately, my local dealer doesn't have this combination in stock yet.

 

[Wayne]

Thanks Again Steve !!!!
You and I are thinking along the same lines. I was assuming that music coming from the Clarity's would be just backround music just as you stated. However since you are not in the sweet spot does the music you hear sound flat and lack the definition? I would hate to be in another area and have my system sound like a "transitor radio".

 

[Wayne]

My long awaited trip to the snob store as I have deemed it last Friday was delayed..... They the store called me to say the Vignette's have'nt been set up in their new area and I had something come up more pressing anyway. Unfortunately sometimes there are other things in life with a higher precedent than music.... " please no hate mail for saying that " I will be going back as soon as we are both ready.

 

[attyonline]

Heck, don't worry one second about it, they're only speakers. Hope things are ok with you and yours and let us know about the Vignettes in your own time.

 

[DTB300]

My long awaited trip to the snob store as I have deemed it last Friday was delayed..... They the store called me to say the Vignette's have'nt been set up in their new area

Bummer...hopefully the store will get their act together and get things setup for your next visit. It always amazes me how some stores severely lack in customer service, yet are still able to stay open for business.

But at least they called YOU and saved you a trip over. A good start on the road to better customer service...

and I had something come up more pressing anyway. Unfortunately sometimes there are other things in life with a higher precedent than music.... "

Hope everything is ok on your end. Family and health first...

Dan

 

[Steve]

Thanks Again Steve !!!!
You and I are thinking along the same lines. I was assuming that music coming from the Clarity's would be just backround music just as you stated. However since you are not in the sweet spot does the music you hear sound flat and lack the definition? I would hate to be in another area and have my system sound like a "transitor radio".

Hope all is well for you guys.

To answer your question, I guess the best analogy I can give (and I am by no means an expert) is that these speakers sound incredible in their sweet spot, but more like a pair of box speakers outside that sweet spot. Not to say they sound bad, and certainly nothing as dramatic as you suggest above, but they just lose much of the magic when you step to the side. I expect that all panels will exhibit this behavior to some extend, since it is inherent in the technology...the larger panels probably less than the smaller ones.

Ultimately, the only way to gain perspective on this is to audition them. I spent lots of time in the listening room in the sweet spot, on the side, moving back and forth with various types of music. At the end of the day, I could not find anything else in my price range that sounded as good as these did when comparing optimum listening positions for both. I just got addicted to the clarity (pardon the pun) of the music that electrostats provide. I decided to accept the negatives that I experienced in the audition, but honestly I have never really noticed the negatives at home.

 

[Wayne]

Thanks Everyone for the kind words....
And Steve you hit it on the head......... I MUST do a side by side demo, literally walking around as well as sitting to make a choice. MAYBE a decision by which one has less "negatives", maybe the way to go on choice. As far as a the snob store goes, I guess I must chalk one up in their corner for contacting me in advance... I really can't wait to do this demo thing. If too much time goes by I might do something "stupid" and put the money into the bank account instead of electronics.........!

 

[pat17]

Wayne, any news from your dealer? Did he give you any possible schedule to go and listen to the MLs?

 

[Wayne]

Hello Pat !!!!
As far as a time frame about two more weeks for the snob store.... He says business is so good that they "the staff" are so busy with installations in new homes that they are behind at the store itself ....... I don't know about that, but what can I do. As far my experience with Tweeter goes ... how long can it take to find/get/steal "only kidding" new power cables so I could finally hear the Clarity vs Mosaic ? Are they that rare ???? I did call another ML dealer about an hour and a half from me and he stated that he carries only the Mosaic... no other ML's. When asked why, he stated that customers find that ML's are not the best value out there and the size is NOT what alot of people want these days. However he did give a big thumbs up to the Mosaic saying it was a top speaker in the $2000.00 a pair range

 

[pat17]

I don't know where you live in the US, but I can tell you that out of the US, ML speakers are not that easy to find out... In the country where I'm living, there's only one dealer (around 100 miles away). In my home country in France, I don't remember that they are more than 5 resellers in Paris (around 11 million inhabitants)... and outside Paris is even worth...

By the way, I didn't realise that the price gap was so small between the Clarity and the Mosaic. Considering the difference in terms of sound quality, it's really amazing...

 

[DTB300]

Hello Pat !!!!
As far as a time frame about two more weeks for the snob store.... He says business is so good that they "the staff" are so busy with installations in new homes that they are behind at the store itself ....... I don't know about that, but what can I do.

Wow...too busy for more business? As my father was a salesman, I learned that all business was important, no matter how small or how large. Like you said not much you can do about it

As far my experience with Tweeter goes ... how long can it take to find/get/steal "only kidding" new power cables so I could finally hear the Clarity vs Mosaic ? Are they that rare ????

Roberto!!!! Where are you???? I thought that all ML's use standard PC's, but I may be wrong...

I did call another ML dealer about an hour and a half from me and he stated that he carries only the Mosaic

Well, at least you got someone to talk to, and they were straightforward and honest with you. Why not go a listen to see what you think for starters. One it gets you out of the house, two, you get to listen to audio, three...(fill in the blank)...

Man, I feel your pain with all of your purchase problems you are having.

Dan

 

[randylm]

vignette

I am interested in the Vignette as surrounds for my ML Aerius i and Cinema front spkrs. I have no Tweeter store in Indianapolis and the local ML dealer does not display the Vignette. I am very interested in your experience with them since I likely will not get to hear them before I buy.

I just heard these at audible elegance in Cincinnati they are a big ML dealer excellent place to demo. oh by the way they sonuded good for the moment I heard them I am going back today as they did not have the tv hooked up saturday to get a proper demo. I was actually demoing a Rotel 1075 amp and noticed these.

 

[Wayne]

Randy... did you go back and listen ??? What did you hear ?

 

[Wayne]

Hello Everyone... I've been a little too busy lately to write... SORRY, but I've been reading your threads "quickly". Just to update you all that my visit over one month ago to Tweeter which was a disaster ... has not produced a phone call stating an apology or .... an invitation to come down because they finally set up the Vignettes and found the the Clarity power cables... AMAZING !!!!!

 

[attyonline]

Randy what did you think of the Vignettes? Its a two hour drive from Indy to Cincy so I need some positive feedback before I consider the trip

 

[DTB300]

Hello Everyone... Just to update you all that my visit over one month ago to Tweeter which was a disaster ... has not produced a phone call stating an apology or .... an invitation to come down because they finally set up the Vignettes and found the the Clarity power cables... AMAZING !!!!!

Not AMAZING at all Wayne....that is Tweeter to the "T". Low knowledge, not much help with listening sessions, as they just want to sell and push you out the door.

If Tweeter was the only place available to purchase something, I would not purchase it. They are just not worth my time and money for the service they provide.

Hang in there....ML will help get things sorted out for you.

Dan