Summit X or Focal Maestro Utopia?

[mac_tweety]

Hello

I have the opportunity to trade in my ML Summit X for a Focal Maestro Utopia III.
What's your view on this subjekt? Is it worth it?
Has anyone heard the Utopia Maestro and Summit X in direct comparison?
I found the Maestro sounding good, but more demanding for the amplifier.

Regards

 

[bonzo]

Hello

I have the opportunity to trade in my ML Summit X for a Focal Maestro Utopia III.
What's your view on this subjekt? Is it worth it?
Has anyone heard the Utopia Maestro and Summit X in direct comparison?
I found the Maestro sounding good, but more demanding for the amplifier.

Regards

A good audiophile friend who lives in London owns the Maestro Utopia with Krell 750 monos, AR Ref 3 (upgrade to 5SE levels) and Lampi Golden Gate. He loves it, and doesn't like Logans which he has heard only at shows. I owned Summits, and I find his system average for vocals but loads of bass and dynamics for orchestral. He was a first trombonist in a semi professional group and is an experienced audiophile. He tried the Devialet and didn't like it. He too says Utopias hard to drive. Since you are in Germany, try Karan KAS 450 from Europe or higher. He is also planning to add subs, and use Acourate DSP for his digital feeds

ps: Thanks to my wisdom sharing he has added 42 shun mook mpingo discs, shun mook diamond resonators under his components, and the Lampi. :rocker:

 

[Joey_V]

I doubt Summit X would have the dynamics of the Maestro III.

I like Focal utopia series... so I would listen to the Maestro III and see if you like it.. if you do, I would do it.

 

[mac_tweety]

I'll try them in my living room...

 

[sb6]

Hello

I have the opportunity to trade in my ML Summit X for a Focal Maestro Utopia III.
What's your view on this subjekt? Is it worth it?
Has anyone heard the Utopia Maestro and Summit X in direct comparison?
I found the Maestro sounding good, but more demanding for the amplifier.

Regards

The Focal Maestros are exemplary speakers, I heard them at RMAF a few years back. I owned ML Summits and they are good speakers but aren't even in the same league as the $50K Focals you are comparing them to. For example, wrt the enclosure the Focal woofer enclosure is ~2" thick MDF, the ML Summit is 3/4" MDF with a 5/8" piece of MDF separating the woofers. Feel the side of your Summits when playing moderate bass and the cabinet vibrates an incredible amount; horrible for bass accuracy and for the panel mounted above.

In my case, I moved from Summits to Usher BE20Ds which absolutely smoked the MLs at 1/2 the cost of the Focals you refer to. I would gladly take the Focals over my speakers, to put things in perspective. YMMV.

 

[khenegar]

The Focal Maestros are exemplary speakers, I heard them at RMAF a few years back. I owned ML Summits and they are good speakers but aren't even in the same league as the $50K Focals you are comparing them to. For example, wrt the enclosure the Focal woofer enclosure is ~2" thick MDF, the ML Summit is 3/4" MDF with a 5/8" piece of MDF separating the woofers. Feel the side of your Summits when playing moderate bass and the cabinet vibrates an incredible amount; horrible for bass accuracy and for the panel mounted above.

In my case, I moved from Summits to Usher BE20Ds which absolutely smoked the MLs at 1/2 the cost of the Focals you refer to. I would gladly take the Focals over my speakers, to put things in perspective. YMMV.

Looks like u really have a nice system but comparing 50k speakers to your summitx speakers seems kind of unfair do u feel there almost 3 times better than the summit x's? havent heard the focals so I can't really say but they must be really something! Happy listening! Seems like some of the people feel there losing some of the dynamics m/l can't give but they sure can give everything else. This thing on the woofer cabinets my dont vibrate that much if any!

 

[bonzo]

I have never liked focal or any if those other cone speakers..Logan vs focal is completely a matter of preference and of what music you listen to.

 

[hifinutt]

so mac , did you make a decision ? I am a great lover of focal speakers and have heard many but the summit would give them a real run for the money . even now I can`t believe the seamless sound and sounstaging that the logans give . its awesome . certainly far far better than my focal diablos I used to love

 

[mac_tweety]

Dear hifinutt

I made one first decision. I bought a pair MC601.:music: Currently I drive my Summit X with two MC275 in mono.
I heard the Summit X several times with the MC601 and it sounded wonderful. For the Focal I need them anyway.
They will be delivered next Saturday. Then I try the Summits with the MC601. Thereafter I have to make a second decision...

 

[Joey_V]

Dear hifinutt

I made one first decision. I bought a pair MC601.:music: Currently I drive my Summit X with two MC275 in mono.
I heard the Summit X several times with the MC601 and it sounded wonderful. For the Focal I need them anyway.
They will be delivered next Saturday. Then I try the Summits with the MC601. Thereafter I have to make a second decision...

Cool I look forward to your impressions!

 

[Audioseduction]

I doubt Summit X would have the dynamics of the Maestro III.

I like Focal utopia series... so I would listen to the Maestro III and see if you like it.. if you do, I would do it.

Joey, you wouldn't say that if you heard my Summit Xs. Summit Xs love lots of good clean power to sound their best,

 

[sb6]

Looks like u really have a nice system but comparing 50k speakers to your summitx speakers seems kind of unfair do u feel there almost 3 times better than the summit x's? haven't heard the Focals so I can't really say but they must be really something! Happy listening! Seems like some of the people feel there losing some of the dynamics m/l can't give but they sure can give everything else. This thing on the woofer cabinets my don't vibrate that much if any!

I can't imagine your cabinets don't vibrate, why would one and not others? To have 2 10" drivers in such a small enclosure and close proximity separated by a board barely thicker than 1/2" really left a bad taste in my mouth when I had to open up 1 of my Summits because an Ice amp cable had worked loose. Charging $15K for the Summit X with such poor construction is ridiculous IMO. Here's a pic of the inside from another post here:

 

[khenegar]

Vibration

I can't imagine your cabinets don't vibrate, why would one and not others? To have 2 10" drivers in such a small enclosure and close proximity separated by a board barely thicker than 1/2" really left a bad taste in my mouth when I had to open up 1 of my Summits because an Ice amp cable had worked loose. Charging $15K for the Summit X with such poor construction is ridiculous IMO. Here's a pic of the inside from another post here:

View attachment 18254

Sb6: how much vibration are u talking about I can feel some but not like u described as vibrating all over the place. We're u playing your summits over a 110db plus? Some manufactures design there speakers with some vibration in the cabinets. How did u feel your summits sounded before u opened them up? I guess the reviewers didn't feel there was a problem I dont remember reading that they had a problem with the cabinets vibrating out of control only how good they sounded. How do u feel with your cabinets vibrating so much did to the sound? Thanks

 

[sb6]

Sb6: how much vibration are u talking about I can feel some but not like u described as vibrating all over the place. We're u playing your summits over a 110db plus? Some manufactures design there speakers with some vibration in the cabinets. How did u feel your summits sounded before u opened them up? I guess the reviewers didn't feel there was a problem I dont remember reading that they had a problem with the cabinets vibrating out of control only how good they sounded. How do u feel with your cabinets vibrating so much did to the sound? Thanks

First, I have never played any of my systems at 100dB let alone 110 dB. My max is usually high 80s, maybe peaking at 90dB or thereabouts. Playing songs with prominent bass content at ~80dB -~90dB with your hand on the side of the bass cabinet you can clearly feel the 3/4" MDF reverberating. I never felt that when I had SL3s, maybe a little. However, the Summits have 2x the woofer + built in amps. When I moved to my current speaker - Usher BE20Ds, no such problem since they are extremely well built MDF with outer solid walnut, not veneer) and ample types of insulation. Of course 1 Usher weighs 4 times as much as 1 Summit and weighs 300lbs. No comparison in construction. No reverberation, dead quiet with any bass.

 

[amey01]

What's your view on this subjekt? Is it worth it?

If you could say it was "worth it" or not...........;
If one speaker was categorically better than the other.........;

Then the "better" speaker would get 100% of the sales and the other speaker wouldn't exist.

Clearly, that is not the case. The speakers in question are just different. Both have their place. Listen and see what one suits your preferences.

 

[khenegar]

Vibrations

First, I have never played any of my systems at 100dB let alone 110 dB. My max is usually high 80s, maybe peaking at 90dB or thereabouts. Playing songs with prominent bass content at ~80dB -~90dB with your hand on the side of the bass cabinet you can clearly feel the 3/4" MDF reverberating. I never felt that when I had SL3s, maybe a little. However, the Summits have 2x the woofer + built in amps. When I moved to my current speaker - Usher BE20Ds, no such problem since they are extremely well built MDF with outer solid walnut, not veneer) and ample types of insulation. Of course 1 Usher weighs 4 times as much as 1 Summit and weighs 300lbs. No comparison in construction. No reverberation, dead quiet with any bass.[/QUOTE

I respect your opinion but was asking how u felt about how the summit sounded before u found out about the vibrating cabinets. What did u feel it did to the sound? haven't seen any diy people bracing the cabinet more! I'm sure your speakers sound great or u wouldn't Have bought them! Do u feel the summits would have sound better if the cabinets were braced more? Thanks

 

[sb6]

Looks like u really have a nice system but comparing 50k speakers to your summitx speakers seems kind of unfair do u feel there almost 3 times better than the summit x's? havent heard the focals so I can't really say but they must be really something! Happy listening! Seems like some of the people feel there losing some of the dynamics m/l can't give but they sure can give everything else. This thing on the woofer cabinets my dont vibrate that much if any!

Sorry Khenegar, I never answered your complete question. WRT whether the Focals are worth 3x the Summits, that's a purely subjective question but if I had to make a call, I'd say yes (assuming you provide the speakers with appropriate quality amp(s), source, cables, etc). Also, I would never equate price as being linear with sonic pleasure especially as you climb the ladder.

 

[Gordon Gray]

I'll share a recent experience with my MBL's, which energize the room similar to what ML's or other planar speakers generally do, and the YG Kipod Signature with the active bass module.

After some five days with the YG's, I just could not get over the difference in how the music was presented, particularly in the "space / dimensionality" category.

The ML's and the MBL's were so much more realistic in this regard. The YG's sounded clinical in comparison and didn't allow me to emotionally connect with the music.

I also had a more recent experience with the KEF Sig. Ones and Threes. Same conclusion.

For me, after having had four different ML models and now the MBL 116's and given my personal bias towards their sonic signature, I've given up on finding a box speaker that can equal the way ML's, MBL's, Maggies, etc. energize a room and provide the resultant listening experience.

To sb6 and with all due respect, I never had a problem with the Summit cabinet vibrations you speak of and the deleterious impacts thereof. Mid and low bass performance were always very good to excellent and in fact, outperform my current speaker in that regard.

GG

 

[sb6]

I'll share a recent experience with my MBL's, which energize the room similar to what ML's or other planar speakers generally do, and the YG Kipod Signature with the active bass module.

After some five days with the YG's, I just could not get over the difference in how the music was presented, particularly in the "space / dimensionality" category.

The ML's and the MBL's were so much more realistic in this regard. The YG's sounded clinical in comparison and didn't allow me to emotionally connect with the music.

I also had a more recent experience with the KEF Sig. Ones and Threes. Same conclusion.

For me, after having had four different ML models and now the MBL 116's and given my personal bias towards their sonic signature, I've given up on finding a box speaker that can equal the way ML's, MBL's, Maggies, etc. energize a room and provide the resultant listening experience.

To sb6 and with all due respect, I never had a problem with the Summit cabinet vibrations you speak of and the deleterious impacts thereof. Mid and low bass performance were always very good to excellent and in fact, outperform my current speaker in that regard.

GG

Gordon,

For me, it took some significant room treatment tuning but with cone speakers you can get quite exceptional imaging and accurate spacial cues. I would say my current setup images better than either of the MLs I owned. How much of that is also due to switching up everything else in my system, I'll never know. However, omnis like the MBLs are in another league when it comes to an immersive experience and are almost impossible to match with cones or planars IME.

Net - Unless your room is treated well, it's difficult to know the true potential of planars, omnis or monopole speakers especially with imaging, natural decays and spacial cues. I believe you inherently achieve more of planars and omnis potential with little - no treatment. Not so with monopoles.

BTW - I'm not trying to dictate your opinion, taste or preferences just relaying my experiences and assessment.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Agreed. From my limited experience with cone speakers, if set up properly with appropriate room treatment, are clearly better in the "precise imaging" category but not so much in the "immersive" category. But, as you so aptly stated, it's all about personal taste and preference.

As an aside, I have very little treatment in my room. As for the difference between omnis and say ML's, the former does everything the ML's do and more IMHO.

Best,

Gordon