McCain and Obama

[tsmooth]

tsmooth, I choose to respond to this part of your post because it is the only part that is not hyperbole and demagoguery posing as political insight.

I agree that national polls are not very useful in predicting an election. State by state polls that look at the actual potential allocation of electoral college votes are much more reliable. And they show that we have a potential landslide in the making. For instance, check out:

Electoral Vote .Com

Thanks for the link, you have one of the few Democratic opinions I actually find value in. As I usually put more thought into my statements before posting, it is not quite as bad as "wipe his ass with the Constitution" or a few F bombs followed by "I am moving to Canada if McCain wins".

 

[tsmooth]

An interesting look into how Obama went from poems to creating "the best-written memoir ever produced by an American politician"

http://www.americanthinker.com/prin...2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html

 

[Len44]

I am personally worried that Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing
although I am not thrilled to have palin in the white house I think she is a mouthy hole! I think we know a lot more about McCain and at least we will win the war in Iraq with dignity every time I here Obama say it was a mistake I feel really bad for our soldiers over there I wish he would just shut the hell up about that.I am from Illinois and we have the biggest political crooks in charge of this state I do not think we need one of our politicians in the white house.I think Obama has been on his best behavior just waiting for his chance to trample all over this country.

Gotta keep our "dignity" (or what's left of it) -- "You betcha!"

Q: When you say, "...trample all over this country" are you suggesting that Barrack Obama would do this even more so than Bush/Cheney/Rove???

 

[Len44]

Great, I can't wait to have a President that hangs out with a terriorist and goes to a racist church for 20 years. Just can't wait until we are attacked again and sit on our hands with an unproven leader. Can't wait to have taxes raised as we are on the brink of recession (probably causing a depression). Can't wait until the Obama backed Accorns and FM and FM give more money to people who don't know how to use it. If November goes exactly as the TV wants to tell us, then we deserve to have only one side represented in all branches. You can give me all the polls, speculation, and exit polls you want, but I think this is going to be much closer then we are led to believe. That is unless we have hundreds of thousands of dead people, illegals, fellons, and duplicate voters, all of which will be for Obama, “get out the vote”. Even Iraq has a more fair process then America. I am glad we are all "ok" with mediocrity.

What a load of garbage! Oh my...Where to begin?

1. Uh, the US was attacked while BUSH was Prez...

2. BUSH -- clearly an "unproven leader" -- then proceded to attack the WRONG country!

3. Well, if you make more than $250,000 per year, then yeah, your taxes will rise a bit. Duh!!!

4. What is happening / coming WILL be know as the "BUSH DEPRESSION!"

5. Obama does NOT back ACORN -- and you have nothing but the wildest of speculation to suggest such. Let's at least TRY to keep all this factual...

6. "That is unless we have hundreds of thousands of dead people, illegals, fellons, and duplicate voters, all of which will be for Obama, “get out the vote”." Again, wholly unsubstantiated, wild speculation... however, it is a bit different than the the Bush/Rove tactic of actively SUPPRESSING votes.

7. "Even Iraq has a more fair process then America." Gee, some might suggest that, since you seem to admire their process so much more than that in the United States, that you might prefer to move there. (I, of course, would not suggest such.)

Again, let's at least TRY to keep what we post here factual -- not shabby, wild unsubstantiated speculation.

 

[DrJRapp]

1. The US was attacked because our former president did nothing while our troops and interests all over the world were being attacked.

Worse than that Clinton took a hatchet to the military and chopped out all the talent along with his overall drastic reduction in numbers and cuts in future development programs. In the mid ninetys while this was all happening I predicted we would fall victim of some radical nation that thought we had become too weak to respond, and that the corresponding military buildup that would be required would cost many times what Clinton had "saved" and would put our grandchildren, great grandchildren and great great grandchildren in hock. I made this prediction long before Bush came to power. I wonder what we would be saying about Al Gore right now if he had won...undoubtably it would be the Republicans moaning about Gore's failed policies.

 

[68sting]

THIS IS A NONPARTISAN JOKE THAT CAN BE ENJOYED BY BOTH PARTIES!





NOT ONLY THAT, it is POLITICALLY CORRECT!!.......and so timely!







While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit by
a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems
there is a problem.


We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not
sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the senator.

"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up.


What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven.


Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the
senator.

"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down,
down, down to hell.


The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf
course.


In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his
friends and other politicians who had worked with him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him,
shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while
getting rich at the expense of the people.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and
champagne..

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a
good time dancing and telling jokes.


They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time
to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises
...

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St..
Peter is waiting for him.

"Now it's time to visit heaven."

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls
moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a
good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St.
Peter returns.

"Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now
choose your eternity."

The senator reflects for a minute, then answers: "Well, I would never
have said it before,


I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in
hell."

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to
hell.
Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren
land covered with waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and
putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above...

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. "I
don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and there
was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank
champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland
full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"

The devil looks at him, smiles and says.......

"Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted."

 

[Beakman]

What a load of garbage! Oh my...Where to begin?

1. Uh, the US was attacked while BUSH was Prez...

2. BUSH -- clearly an "unproven leader" -- then proceded to attack the WRONG country!

3. Well, if you make more than $250,000 per year, then yeah, your taxes will rise a bit. Duh!!!

4. What is happening / coming WILL be know as the "BUSH DEPRESSION!"

5. Obama does NOT back ACORN -- and you have nothing but the wildest of speculation to suggest such. Let's at least TRY to keep all this factual...

6. "That is unless we have hundreds of thousands of dead people, illegals, fellons, and duplicate voters, all of which will be for Obama, “get out the vote”." Again, wholly unsubstantiated, wild speculation... however, it is a bit different than the the Bush/Rove tactic of actively SUPPRESSING votes.

7. "Even Iraq has a more fair process then America." Gee, some might suggest that, since you seem to admire their process so much more than that in the United States, that you might prefer to move there. (I, of course, would not suggest such.)

Again, let's at least TRY to keep what we post here factual -- not shabby, wild unsubstantiated speculation.

Worse than that Clinton took a hatchet to the military and chopped out all the talent along with his overall drastic reduction in numbers and cuts in future development programs. In the mid ninetys while this was all happening I predicted we would fall victim of some radical nation that thought we had become too weak to respond, and that the corresponding military buildup that would be required would cost many times what Clinton had "saved" and would put our grandchildren, great grandchildren and great great grandchildren in hock. I made this prediction long before Bush came to power. I wonder what we would be saying about Al Gore right now if he had won...undoubtably it would be the Republicans moaning about Gore's failed policies.

1. The US was attacked because our former president did nothing while our troops and interests all over the world were being attacked. This emboldened these maggots to the point where they figured they would come right into our own country and use our own freedoms against us. Sad indeed that someone didn't do something much earlier to make them responsible for their actions.
Say what you will about what Bush did, we have not been attacked on our own soil since 9/11. Had Bush used a lesser approach nobody really can say what would have taken place. (including me and my opinion) Perhaps we would be in a better place.............perhaps not. When confronted with this unknown I for one feel fine about the course taken. Could things have been done better, differently, more cautiously, more gently? Sure, just like the previous admin. handled things and look where that took us.
For all those folks hell-bent on second guessing every breath of this current president I wonder if they will act the same when the Messiah takes over? Or will all be "sunshine and roses", and our congress finally be screaming to move in a unified bi-partisan direction to stop the threat of terrorism. Come on we all know the minute "the one" takes over everything will be better.
Unlike some I really hope all will be better. This Rep/Dem thing has put us in a position where if one side is in charge the other "seems" to hope for failure and IMHO do things to encourage it. We have all heard the quote that "if Iraq turns around this will be bad for "us" " " Harry R. "We have lost this War" These and many many other words by our "leaders" diminish us all and put our troops in harms way. Does anyone truly believe our enemies don't hang on to every one of these horrible words and use it to there advantage.
I know I'm not changing anyones mind, but I can't help but feel many want failure for this country simply for a reason to change parties.

Round and round it goes, all the while nobody realizes that whatever the two candidates we have, or ever have had, keep adding more s**t to the pile. Never do they take any away, and we keep on chasing our own tails thinking it's the solution.
Will you have the strength to ignore these two, a ying and yang of the same circle, and give legitamacy to others on the ballots so as to give our decendents more compass points for the future's direction?

 

[tonepub]

Here's my question though...

How can McCain say that Obamas intended tax policies intend to redistribute the wealth are any different than his plan that wants to pick up the tab on 300 billion dollars worth of mortgages for people that are overextended?

I live in a small house, because I knew that was what I could afford. Sure, the bank guy wanted to sell me a MUCH bigger mortgage than I signed up, but being self employed, I've had good years and bad years and this made us decide on a small house in case things got tough.

I don't really have anything morally against the govt. doing this, but isn't this also redistribution of wealth and how is it any less socialist than 5% of the population having a 3% tax hike to help out those less fortunate?

Also, I've argued with my hardcore republican brother in law about the 100k a year he gets from the govt. to NOT plant crops, i.e. a farm subsidy.

Having grown up in a farming family, I understand where this came from years ago, but with my brother in law, who hates farming anyway and inherited a pile of farm land from his father told me "I can bust my butt to make 60k a year, or I can put the whole thing in CAP and get 100k for doing nothing..."

So, please explain to me how this is not redistribution/socialism.

Just because a man served his country in battle does not mean he is necessarily qualified to lead the country. It scares the heck out of me that John McCain doesn't even know how to use email.

My father in Law is just like John McCain. They are the same age, both war heroes (except my father in law graduated with honors from the U of W and the Harvard Business School), but they both still have this vision of America in the 50's that is sorely obsolete today.

I'd really like to see America achieve the technical and economic power it used to have, but we are going to have to change our thinking a bit. I honestly don't think John McCain is the man to do that.

But what worries me more than anything is watching what happened to my 72 year old father in law this January. He had a stroke and is now pretty much the equivalent of a ten year old retard that has to wear a diaper and can barely feed himself.

I'm sorry guys but that's what we are looking at if something bad happens to John McCain.

But on a lighter note, what did we think of Sarah Palin on SNL last night?

Wow, I was expecting a little bit more brilliance from her. But she just kind of choked. I don't think I've seen anyone fare this poorly on SNL since Nancy Kerrigan!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Well. It seems Colin Powell has weighed in on this issue.

Are we now to expect attack ads against Mr. Powell's credibility?

We will now see how deep the "FEAR" strategy is entrenched within the Republican guard / McCain campaign.

Personally, I hope JM continues with his FEAR / attack based strategy.

GG

 

[theWB]

Presidential Debate

So I'm watching the Presidential Debate last week and my 8 and 9 year old walk into the room. I asked them who they want to be the next President?

My 8 year old says "Obama"
I ask him why
He says " Cause he's brown like me"

My 9 year old says "I want Obama to win too"
I ask him why
He says "John McCain is to old he'll be dead soon"

So there you have it, Vote for Obama because he's brown and McCain is too old

 

[Len44]

<Sigh> OK, Point by Point:

1. The US was attacked because our former president did nothing while our troops and interests all over the world were being attacked. This emboldened these maggots to the point where they figured they would come right into our own country and use our own freedoms against us. Sad indeed that someone didn't do something much earlier to make them responsible for their actions.

So you are one of those who are STILL seeking to demonize President Bill Clinton for everything that has gone wrong in our country in the last 50 years or so. Well, being as how you are such an authority on all this, how about naming the seven most important "attacks against our troops and interests all over the world" to which the Clinton administration failed to respond? It is one thing to state charges oh so boldly with a cavalier attitude, and quite another to be specific.

Comparing Bush to Clinton? Clinton was so far advanced compared to Bush that I had to see the humor in Chris Rock's comment: "Tell you what, put the last guy (Clinton) back in [the Presidency], and I'LL give him a BJ!"

Say what you will about what Bush did, we have not been attacked on our own soil since 9/11. Had Bush used a lesser approach nobody really can say what would have taken place. (including me and my opinion) Perhaps we would be in a better place.............perhaps not. When confronted with this unknown I for one feel fine about the course taken.

While clearly a response was appropriate, it would have been nice if he (Bush) could have at least picked out the right country / enemy to go after...

Could things have been done better, differently, more cautiously, more gently? Sure, just like the previous admin. handled things and look where that took us.

Again, your vagueness makes your point rather underwhelming...

For all those folks hell-bent on second guessing every breath of this current president I wonder if they will act the same when the Messiah takes over? Or will all be "sunshine and roses", and our congress finally be screaming to move in a unified bi-partisan direction to stop the threat of terrorism. Come on we all know the minute "the one" takes over everything will be better.

Well, for one thing, we'll once again have a President with at least some measure of intelligence. One who doesn't have the famous Bush smirk. One who doesn't act like he has all the answers. (Although, Bush DOES have the ability to be wrong, confidently.)

And please remember, past Presidents, in moments of crisis, consistently reached out to the other party to at least try to unite the country. That is, until "W" -- who pretty much made a mockery out of bi-partisanship. Why don't you focus just a moment on the egregious excesses and rank partisanship when the Republicans were running things from 1994 to 2006? How terrible for our country THAT was.

BTW, those of you who use the insulting "The One," "The Chosen One," "The Anointed One," etc., etc. only demonstrate the depth to which your arguments are devoid of merit. All you seem to have to offer are generalities and insults. Such an approach is demeaning and insulting, and has no place in an American political contest. Good Grief!!!

Unlike some I really hope all will be better. This Rep/Dem thing has put us in a position where if one side is in charge the other "seems" to hope for failure and IMHO do things to encourage it. We have all heard the quote that "if Iraq turns around this will be bad for "us" " " Harry R. "We have lost this War" These and many many other words by our "leaders" diminish us all and put our troops in harms way. Does anyone truly believe our enemies don't hang on to every one of these horrible words and use it to there advantage.

I, too, hope, we can somehow get out of the wars, Constitutional Massacre, terrible standing for our Country in the world, and the economic mess (Bush Depression) that this administration has created. And, for the record, I am no fan of the Dem Congressional leaders. But, they have not engaged in any worse political positioning than the Republicans have in the past. And, FWIW, I am a registered Republican.

I know I'm not changing anyones mind, but I can't help but feel many want failure for this country simply for a reason to change parties.

I certainly do not want failure for my country. You know, Bush/Rove/Cheney somehow fostered this crazy notion that only Republicans loved America; that only Republicans were patriots; that only Republicans loved God. And they used it to great political advantage to advance their own ends (and elections). Never mind that they dishonorably divided our country, and pretty well wrecked it in the bargain.

Remember the old Reagan theme: "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" Well, we all ought to be asking ourselves that question as we get ready to vote in this Presidential election. Because, when we consider how well off we were when Bill Clinton left office, compared to where we are now -- well, the choice becomes pretty clear for many of us.

I am sad and sickened by the last eight years of Bush and his minions...

 

[TrumpetDoug]

BTW s 5 enough

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured
1,000; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted
down and punished.

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five US military
personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down
and punished.

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19
and injured 200 US military personnel; Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1998 bombing of US embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and
injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible! would be hunted
down! and punished.

After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39
US sailors; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down
and punished.

Doug - out

 

[Rich]

And after 9/11, Bush promised bin Laden and Mullah Omar would be hunted down and punished. Sometimes it is easier to say it than to accomplish it. But trying to use 9/11 to justify invasion of another country without provocation was a horrific change in US foreign policy that will live in infamy. And it completely distracted us from the fight against al Qaida and bin Laden.

By the way, Doug. Your list is taken from a discredited right-wing spam email that has been floating around since 2001. Here is the Snopes page which debunks it. If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion like this, you really need to get your facts from somewhere besides Rush Limbaugh's email list. Give me a break. Do you believe everything you read in all those forwarded emails and go around preaching them as fact? I guess you believe Obama is a muslim undercover terrorist who was really born in Kenya.

 

[Rich]

So there you have it, Vote for Obama because he's brown and McCain is too old

Out of the mouths of babes . . . brilliant! It's about time we had a young, brown president instead of a pasty old white guy.

 

[Len44]

After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured 1,000; President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

The attack was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. They received financing from Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, Yousef's uncle. In March 1994, four men were convicted of carrying out the bombing: Abouhalima, Ajaj, Ayyad and Salameh. The charges included conspiracy, explosive destruction of property and interstate transportation of explosives. And in November 1997, two more were convicted: Yousef, the mastermind behind the bombings, and Eyad Ismoil, who drove the truck carrying the bomb.

Insofar as the rest of these, uh, tired old (and aging) charges are concerned, please check out:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.asp

which pretty effectively puts the lie to these ridiculous allegations.

After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five US military personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured 200 US military personnel; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

After the 1998 bombing of US embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000; Clinton promised that those responsible! would be hunted
down! and punished.

After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 US sailors; Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

Doug - out

 

[Len44]

And after 9/11, Bush promised bin Laden and Mullah Omar would be hunted down and punished. Sometimes it is easier to say it than to accomplish it. But trying to use 9/11 to justify invasion of another country without provocation was a horrific change in US foreign policy that will live in infamy. And it completely distracted us from the fight against al Qaida and bin Laden.

By the way, Doug. Your list is taken from a discredited right-wing spam email that has been floating around since 2001. Here is the Snopes page which debunks it. If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion like this, you really need to get your facts from somewhere besides Rush Limbaugh's email list. Give me a break. Do you believe everything you read in all those forwarded emails and go around preaching them as fact? I guess you believe Obama is a muslim undercover terrorist who was really born in Kenya.

Hey, way to go, Rich. You beat me to it.

You were more eloquent to boot!

 

[Rich]

Andrew Sullivan, Larry Hunter, Douglas Kmiec, William Donaldson, David Ruder, Susan Eisenhower, David Friedman, Christopher Buckley . . . and now . . . Colin Powell (among many others). The list of conservatives who have come out in support of Barack Obama is enough to make your head spin.

It should be enough to make any conservative stop and think for a moment about who they are supporting. These are not idiots. These are not extremists or liberals. These are some of the best and brightest of our nation. They are conservative republicans. Yet, they realize what is at stake in this election. They realize that the republican party has been hijacked by the evangelical right and there is little credence given to true conservative principles anymore. They realize that fiscal and Constitutional conservatism are no longer the hallmarks of the republican party. And so they have made an informed decision that Obama is the best choice among these two candidates. Food for thought.

 

[twich54]

The list of conservatives who have come out in support of Barack Obama is enough to make your head spin..

head spin ???....Not at all ! It actually makes one sit up straight and take notice !!

Assuming Obama wins, that's Ok the world won't come to an end over it, here's the deal....there will be NO EXCUSE after four years of at least having this nation "pointed" in the right direction.

Remember Carter took over after the last 'Big' reccession and he did not gain ANY respect untill his after his White House years. Actually might be one of our nations best Presidents, "post administration" !

 

[HsvToolFool]

Hey! Please don't forget invaluable endorsements from Lincoln Chaffey
and Lindsey Graham. Why, it's a veritable "A-list" of conservatives
supporting The Obamessiah!

Feh. An "R" next to a politician's name does not a conservative make.
True conservatives and libertarians aptly describe the aforementioned as
"RINOs"...Republican In Name Only.

Topping the list of well-known RINOs is John McCain himself. He's been
slightly Left of Center for the past 12 years. The conservative base was
(and still is) rightly outraged by his nomination. Only the mainstream
media (aka - The Left) thinks spinning McCain as a right-winger make sense.
JFK was more conservative than McCain. The Republicans are now 1960s
Democrats, while the Democrats are 1950s marxists. Only in that context is
McCain is a conservative.

The nation is completely polarized, and such rifts lead to civil war. Perhaps
something can avoid it, but it's not a stupid, crooked politician. If 9-11
just became fodder to widen the gulf, then a far-leftist like Obama or a
mild-leftist like McCain will just make the rift that much worse.

 

[FISH_MAN]

The nation is completely polarized, and such rifts lead to civil war. Perhaps
something can avoid it, but it's not a stupid, crooked politician. If 9-11
just became fodder to widen the gulf, then a far-leftist like Obama or a
mild-leftist like McCain will just make the rift that much worse.[/QUOTE]


fat people do not fight civil wars !!! this country has more fatties than all the world.
I would say lately I fit into this category