Obama's legacy

[Kevin]

I am curious how you guy's feel about Obama now that he is on the way out? I was never a fan of Bush. I saw faults with how he handled foreign policy and thought he spent way too much. He was president when the financial collapse occurred, but I know the collapse was bigger than any one individual and had links going back further than his presidency, but still, he was there when it did occur. I might not rate his legacy as bad as some of you, but I certainly didn't view his presidency as good or successful.

You know I am not a fan of Obama's. But looking at it from my perspective, without even getting into policy differences, I would think democrats would not be all that pleased either. I know a lot is made about republican obstructionism blocking his agenda, but honestly, that obstruction would not have been there if not for the American voters. I think when either party gets complete control, they tend to overreach. This scares me with the republicans currently. But if you put out good policies that the majority of voters deem reasonable and likeable, then I think you can hurt the other party if they obstruct those policies from being implemented. Neither party seems to get that. They get the power needed to get things done, overreach, and then lose that ability. The American voter never took too Obamacare, there were promises broken and claims that never materialized. For such a large transformational bill, it should have had some republican skin in it. That hurt him from the start, took away the democrats monopoly on congress and was something from which he never fully recovered. I can remember watching MSNBC when even Chris Matthews threw a fit after the 2014 election about how Obama would not reach across the aisle. So I don't think it's just my bias making me think that way.

Under Obama, the republicans won elections that were historical in numbers. Governorships, state legislatures, the House, the Senate, all greatly increased. Some of that can't be written off to just gerrymandering, a racial element or something of that sort. The republicans won in blue areas that hadn't gone republican in a long time. If that were to occur 2 years from now, I am quite for certain I will be holding Trump at fault. I am sure he played a small roll in the election as well.

I think once a presidents term has ended and the election for his replacement is over, you get a clearer more honest answer than you do when in the thick of things, so to speak. I love this country, it would take a real turn of events for me to think negatively about our nation as a whole. Too many great things and too many things for which to be proud. But in my opinion, we have 16 years of not failed, but certainly poor leadership. We might be in for four more. Fortunately, the country and it's citizens seem to be resilient to that..... at least for now. Just curious how you guys now rank or think about Obama now that all is pretty much said and done?

 

[Rich]

My answer to this will probably be long and today is college football day, so I'll save it for tomorrow. I think it's a great question, though.

 

[twich54]

my answer will be short (don't give a hoot about College football) ............Kevin I concur and will add that his legacy will also be determined by what he does 'post-presidency'. Example........ Jimmy Carter, not to much with respect to his four years in office (although under his watch the Harley O Staggers Act was written) but his post-presidency with what that office granted him made him one of the best IMO.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Kevin,

A request. Can we all just take a break?

I believe he was the best President in my lifetime but I am confident that this will just turn into another sh$tstorm of anti democratic party rhetoric.

When is enough enough?

Gordon

 

[twich54]

Gordon, so long as we keep it civil, that's what 'off topic' discussions are all about. No one is forcing you to participate.

as far as enough being enough ........ had to laugh at that......after all this is a 'Audio Forum' !

 

[Kevin]

Kevin,

A request. Can we all just take a break?

I believe he was the best President in my lifetime but I am confident that this will just turn into another sh$tstorm of anti democratic party rhetoric.

When is enough enough?

Gordon

You might be right about it turning negative, but I hope not. I think what I asked was very subjective, just your opinion on how you feel he performed after 8 years of leading the country. I take it that if you think he's been the best in your lifetime, which would include Bill Clinton, then you give him very high marks. That's your belief, I'm cool with that. Really, the reason why I ask is because I may have been more likely to defend Bush in the middle of his presidency than I was once it was over. I think everyone is sort of prone to doing that.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Now that Trump has said he is not going to repeal Obamacare but will amend it and he believes that key points like children having healthcare at home until they are 26 and people with preexisting conditions not being blocked from getting healthcare, It appears that Obama's legacy of insuring 20 million people may be intact.

Obama was blocked from closing down Gitmo and many other things he tried to do repeatedly during his presidency.
Obama was blocked from selecting a Supreme Court Justice.
Obama was blocked from quite number of things and had the Congress change its opinion on issues many times when he voiced support for those issues.

Tesla has grown at a much faster rate because of his policies and Tesla paid back the loan they received. Personally I consider Tesla an important company.

I don't think Obama was effective in some ways, but I also think he made some progress.

He and Trump for that matter are in government during "interesting" times where exponential change is happening all around us. The rules are changing.

 

[Pneumonic]

As a Canadian I view Obama's legacy this way.

He will forever be remembered as the first black President, someone who inherited a terrible mess and who tried his best to fix it. By the end of his term, however, I see a country that has spent $10T with not much commensurate return to show for it .... in terms of jobs, racial equality, healthcare and key infrastructure. I do see some positive strides made in terms of student loan programs along with carbon and energy efficiencies though, and I would say his legacy is more symbolic than it is substantial though that may change as time evolves.

 

[timm]

Couple things. Yes he inherited a mess. He signed off on the GM bail out. Good move. Why? They insure more people than any health carrier. Imagine the strain on the system. Good move there. Bin laden. He gets the cred. Green initiatives - companies like Ford Tesla etc took advantage of this. Healthcare: took steps in the direction to try to address the issue - you can agree or disagree with its impact and effectiveness. Human-ness and ability to touch people. I have never heard a president make people feel like they counted. One of the most charismatic presidents we have ever had.

Downside. Race. Racial divide in our country has never felt stronger. At times it felt like 1967 - and he seemed to choose race over diplomacy. I feel he exacerbated the problem.
Foreign policy. Terrorism has grown leaps and bounds while in office. it feels like we are back to the Cold War with Russia. The Iran deal. Job growth seemed lethargic.

So some good some bad. My heart loved obama. He was a feel good story. My head did not. I almost feel that this reaction is because people genuinely like him as a human being. Hillary was going to be a placebo to replace him. And when that didn't work out I believe they felt a sense of loss because the obama replacement placebo just didn't happen.

 

[stuwee]

Hey, What did he do for the black communities in the inner cities? What did he do for the inner city schools? Let's see some stats mr. Rich and mr. Gordon??

Just about nothing, that's why he and his minion Hillary (thank you Jesus, she didn't win). Ya'll think she would have made anything better? HA!! The riots would have started very,very, soon...Do I have proof Rich? Nope, thank God! I really feel for you dude, you love to call me out, that's just fine with me...water off a ducks back...I Know this country is headed in the right way whether you like it or not. Go on get on my a$$, I ain't scared, I got what I KNOW is right as did the majority of the country, buck up and be a man or woman all of you liberal, Hillary lovers, use your passion to help us all make the USA what it should be!

Obama will go down as the worst President in the 20th century, Islam tried and lost this time...Yes, I just said that! The people spoke!

 

[Rich]

Sorry to disappoint you, Stuwee, but I'm not going to waste my time responding to an argumentative xenophobic rant. I will respond to Kevin's insightful and respectful post when I find the time.

 

[twich54]

Stu, do us all a favor and keep this thread 'civil' or I'll have to end it. For the record, Obama will not go down as the worst president of the 20th century since he wasn't president in that century ! Regardless he certainly wasn't the worst nor was he the best. Lets all try and be constructive......... Thanks !

 

[Gordon Gray]

Let me state the obvious that is very relevant to this thread.

When you consider legacy, one must remember Mitchie's comment about the President within weeks of his first term.

Paraphrasing but it's pretty close, MM said he will do everything in his power to make sure Obama would not win a second term. That pretty much set the "tone" (toxic, combative, non cooperative environment) that Obama has had to deal with during his term in office.

How one can reasonably discuss "legacy" given the obstructionist environment that he had to overcome is well above my mental pay grade.

And Craig, please chill out. All your rhetoric does is continue / reinforce the fear and anger and hatred that DT used extensively throughout the campaign. And please don't use HRC as the whipping post. She is now irrelevant in the discussion moving forward.

And by the way, DT did not win a majority of the popular vote. HRC did. You need to remember that very important distinction.

Best,

Gordon

 

[Gordon Gray]

You might be right about it turning negative, but I hope not.

I hate it when I'm right sometimes.

PS: Dave, there is another obvious alternative to closing the thread.

 

[TomDac]

I try not to get sucked into politics and I realize everyone has their own opinions and I totally respect them. I think Obama has shown intelligence, class and did what he could with what he was given and what he inherited from the Bush administration. I don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to be the President, but I think he was a good one.

 

[Kevin]

Let me state the obvious that is very relevant to this thread.

When you consider legacy, one must remember Mitchie's comment about the President within weeks of his first term.

Paraphrasing but it's pretty close, MM said he will do everything in his power to make sure Obama would not win a second term. That pretty much set the "tone" (toxic, combative, non cooperative environment) that Obama has had to deal with during his term in office.

How one can reasonably discuss "legacy" given the obstructionist environment that he had to overcome is well above my mental pay grade.

And Craig, please chill out. All your rhetoric does is continue / reinforce the fear and anger and hatred that DT used extensively throughout the campaign. And please don't use HRC as the whipping post. She is now irrelevant in the discussion moving forward.

And by the way, DT did not win a majority of the popular vote. HRC did. You need to remember that very important distinction.

Best,

Gordon

Gordon- That quote has been attributed to MM as being at the start of Obama's presidency many times, so I don't blame you for think that it took place within weeks of his first term. But it actually came out in an interview with Mitch on 10/23/2010, two years after Obama's having been in office. He also shortly followed up that statement in the same interview with, "If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him." Meaning the republicans were willing to work with him as long as he was willing to work with them. That seems to indicate a willingness for compromise rather than obstructionism.

Obama passed two major pieces of legislation in his first two years that seemed to cause the American public to want to check the democrats power at the time. He had the healthcare bill, which the public was against, and he had the $787 billion stimulus package. Obamacare did not roll out that well from beginning, and has never had majority approval since then that I am aware. The stimulus package was supposed to be for jobs that were waiting to go and just needed financing to start. That too didn't turn out as was sold, and when the president admitted 'laughingly' that there really wasn't any "shovel ready" jobs, that obviously had to hurt. It's what led to the huge republican victory in the 2010 midterms. Perhaps the republicans obstructed Obama, but the repubs seemed to have full support of the American voter to do just that.

 

[twich54]

And by the way, DT did not win a majority of the popular vote. HRC did. You need to remember that very important distinction.

Best,

Gordon

Truthfully Gordon the only important 'distinction' with respect to your 'overall popular vote' comment is that if you take out the 'city' vote , you know, where 80% of our problems lie, she wouldn't have come close , just sayin........

 

[Rich]

I think Obama's legacy is one of a thoughtful, intelligent, statesman. One of the finest orators (a dying art) we have had in a long time. He has been a positive figurehead and role model. His approval ratings at the end of his term speak to his popularity among the people. And he managed to steer our country out of some dark times.

He took over during an absolute crisis- a banking and housing market collapse that nearly led to a second Great Depression. Plummeting stock markets, massive unemployment and a skyrocketing budget deficit. I think overall he has done a good job leading us out of that. Eight years later, stock markets and housing markets are back on track, the banking sector is stable, job markets are ramping back up, and the budget deficit is back to where it was before the collapse. This despite six years of a historically obstinate obstructionist Congress. I think he's done about as well as anyone could, under the circumstances.

Personally, I have my disappointments with him. I think he started of a little naive to the viciousness of republican politics, and was a little too conciliatory. Bush administration officials should have been prosecuted for approving war crimes. He declined to do so. Some bankers probably should have been prosecuted as well.

I also felt he didn't do enough in his first term, when he had complete control. Focusing primarily on the A.C.A. was a mistake. I think he underestimated the true damage to the economy and didn't do enough to stimulate it early on. That was a mistake. I also think the A.C.A. was a mistake. It was a republican-designed plan that turned into a moneymaker for insurance companies (no surprise). We truly need a single payer system ("Medicare for all") in this country. Otherwise health care costs are going to continue to go through the roof.

Overall, though, I think Obama will be viewed by history as one of the better presidents of the past fifty years or so.

 

[Rich]

Truthfully Gordon the only important 'distinction' with respect to your 'overall popular vote' comment is that if you take out the 'city' vote , you know, where 80% of our problems lie, she wouldn't have come close , just sayin........

Not sure why this 'distinction' matters, Dave. A citizen is a citizen, regardless of whether they live in an urban or rural area. Everyone's vote should count equally, in my opinion, which is why I'm not a fan of the electoral college.

 

[Gordon Gray]

I too am very confused about Dave's position.

Is he saying rural votes are more important / relevant than those who live in urban areas?

And of course, you will have more problems when higher populations are concentrated in a smaller areas.