Martin Logan - Super Systems... Seeing / Hearing is Believing

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Also, check out the Statement shot on the right... I think you'll find they aren't actually that close to the rear walls!

In defense of the rich? I wouldn't say so... just trying to be realistic!
 
A Very Clean ML Entertainment Option...

Simple ML - HT system. ;)
 

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Powerful Power and more power for this E2 Monster System...

:DI would think extra deodorant would be a listening requirement before listening to this Powerful mega E2 system. :DThe sounds driven strong yet powerful and suttle... :music:


...Plus the stuffed animals are kinda cute as well. :p
 

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Just another example of proof of my maxim that "Net Worth is, more often than not, inversely proportional to Intelligence."

And you got all that from those tiny little pictures? Really, Richard, you have no idea about that system or the person that owns it. You don't know whether that is a permanent or temporary setup or whether the room is acoustically-treated. You are drawing all kinds of conclusions and lambasting this person whom you know absolutely nothing about, simply because they can afford a pair of Statements and don't show them pictured in the perfect room. You come off as sounding very jealous of the wealthy, more than anything.
 
Robin,

I just want to say thank you for sharing all these very cool Martin Logan systems with us all.;)
 
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And you got all that from those tiny little pictures? Really, Richard, you have no idea about that system or the person that owns it. You don't know whether that is a permanent or temporary setup or whether the room is acoustically-treated. You are drawing all kinds of conclusions and lambasting this person whom you know absolutely nothing about, simply because they can afford a pair of Statements and don't show them pictured in the perfect room. You come off as sounding very jealous of the wealthy, more than anything.


Please reference the second picture of another set of E2's, directly above, with all the home-brew amps. Again, set up almost touching the side walls, and about 5 feet from the rears...

Perhaps there is something RADICALLY different about the E2 that I don't know about. Perhaps they ARE designed to sound their best when they are within an arms length of the side and rear walls, and have a radiation pattern and room interaction signature that is abolutely different from every other speaker that Martin Logan has ever produced. Having never owned a pair, I can't really say.

In fact, I've only even HEARD a pair once, at a dealer demo back when they first came out. And if memory serves me, the panels were set out into the room about 6 feet, and about 4 or 5 feet from the side walls, and the subs were NOT set squarely in the corners, but were also set out a few feet (but not as far into the room as the panels). And they sounded heavenly.

However, every pair of E2's I've ever seen on the Net has been in a room about the same size as mine (about 18x26). and I have Sequels. I think it's pretty well established that a room that size is only optimal for a ML up to about the size of a Request or maybe a Prodigy. I find it a little hard to swallow that the E2 would be comfortable in a room this size. I know that a Monolith sounds muffled and constrained in a room this size, unless there is some SERIOUS room treatment going on, and maybe even some sort of DSP device in the loop to tame the acoustics.

I would think that a person who could afford an $80,000 speaker could afford to put it in a room that would make it sound better than my Sequels, which I doubt a pair of E2's squeezed into such a small room would. It just seems that every single pair of E2's I've seen on the web in recent memory (with the exception of "Frank K."'s system in Germany) has been set up nearly touching the side and rear walls. Either an AWFUL lot of E2 owners know absolutely nothing about setting up MLs, and are more interested in how they LOOK than how they SOUND, or there is something RADICALLY different with the way E2's work, compared to other ML speakers.

I have serious doubts that it is the later, and serious suspicions that it is the former. That is all I'm saying.

It has nothing to do with not being able to afford E2s. It has everything to do with seeing a lot of E2 owners with setups that just don't make any sense, with regards to everything we know about setting up and optimizing bi-polar electrostatic speakers.

And a lot of those setups also have other gear in the pics that folks on this list have generally dismissed as being completely incompatible with Martin Logan speakers, but those bits of gear also seem to be VERY spiffy-looking pieces of kit. I just find it hard to believe that the E2s are so radically different from other Martin Logans that they can be set up in violation of all the rules we know about other MLs, and that the E2's also, in violation to everything we know about ML speakers, work fantastically well with Mcintosh tubes, low-power Goldmund SS amps, and sub-100wpc SET monoblocks...

Speaking of Frank K., maybe he can enlighten us as to the sonic properties of the E2, and it's particular demands for setup, since he owns them, and seems to have them set up to sound good to his ears...

--Richard
 
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Perhaps there is something RADICALLY different about the E2 that I don't know about. Perhaps they ARE designed to sound their best when they are within an arms length of the side and rear walls, and have a radiation pattern and room interaction signature that is abolutely different from every other speaker that Martin Logan has ever produced.

Actually, being line source speakers, MLs have less of a problem with side wall interaction than most speakers. They can be fairly close to the side walls without too much of a sonic detriment. Still, it does make sense to have some absorption on the side walls to minimize reflections. But it looks to me like both of those systems pictured above do have absorptive panels on the walls, so I don't really see your point.

As for distance from the rear walls, that is very difficult to tell from a picture and is certainly less important with proper absorption behind the speakers. But your guess of about 5 foot from the rear walls is generally accepted as proper spacing for ML panels, so again I don't see what your beef is.

However, every pair of E2's I've ever seen on the Net has been in a room about the same size as mine (about 18x26). and I have Sequels. I think it's pretty well established that a room that size is only optimal for a ML up to about the size of a Request or maybe a Prodigy. I find it a little hard to swallow that the E2 would be comfortable in a room this size. I know that a Monolith sounds muffled and constrained in a room this size, unless there is some SERIOUS room treatment going on, and maybe even some sort of DSP device in the loop to tame the acoustics.

I would say 18' by 26' is a rather generous-sized room, and if it is equipped with some basic acoustic treatments should be sufficient for any ML. I have my Summits in a 14' by 19' room with proper acoustic treatment and they sound incredible (even though they are only about 2' from the side walls and 3' from the rear wall). Be careful about pronouncing "established rules" for ML speaker placement and room sizes. Everyone is different and has different needs, tastes, music styles, preferred volume levels, acoustic treatments, etc., etc.

By the way, I heard JonFo's system before all his recent room treatment additions. He has Monoliths and his incredible SL3XC center channel and they sound superb in a room that is 15' by 26'. Trust me, they do not sound "muffled and constrained." I have no doubt the Statements would sound just fine in his room and I'm sure if he could afford them he would have them in there. Of course, I'm sure his speakers sound even better now with all of the acoustic treatments from Real Traps.

I would think that a person who could afford an $80,000 speaker could afford to put it in a room that would make it sound better than my Sequels, which I doubt a pair of E2's squeezed into such a small room would.

You might think so, but this is a pretty rash generalization. Some folks may be able to afford a Statement and want them because they are so good, but simply don't have a larger room to put them in. Because I can't drive on the Autobahn, it doesn't mean I shouldn't buy a Ferrari if I want one and can afford it. And if I own one and actually drive the speed limit, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm an idiot either.

And a lot of those setups also have other gear in the pics that folks on this list have generally dismissed as being completely incompatible with Martin Logan speakers, but those bits of gear also seem to be VERY spiffy-looking pieces of kit. I just find it hard to believe that the E2s are so radically different from other Martin Logans that they can be set up in violation of all the rules we know about other MLs, and that the E2's also, in violation to everything we know about ML speakers, work fantastically well with Mcintosh tubes, low-power Goldmund SS amps, and sub-100wpc SET monoblocks...

Again, be careful about pronouncing "rules" for Martin Logan setups. Everyone is different and has different tastes and needs. I know folks on this forum who are very happy with McIntosh tubes on their Logans, and others who love the sound of sub-100wpc SET Monoblocs on their Logans. To each his own. To call them idiots, or tin-eared, because of these choices seems very pompous and condescending.

My problem with your post is that it is blatantly classist and elitist. In so many words, you say that most rich people are stupid and don't have a clue about MLs or good sound. And you base this on a few pictures of some Statement setups that you disagree with. You don't know these people, you haven't heard these setups, and you don't really know a thing about them other than what limited information is in the photographs. To draw such drastic conclusions from such limited information seems both unwarranted and petty. But of course, that is just my humble opinion.
 
I basically agree with Rich, though this thread could get a bit nasty!

Anyway, my 80W SET monos drive my Ascents to very high levels without audible stress, but then they are capable of 170W peaks. I was sceptical about that claim, but they are much more powerful than an 80W Air Tight ATM2 I used to own. They are brlliant amps and I totally love 'em. I much prefer them to a Krell I demoed a while ago with some Summits.

Anyway, what is going on with those amps in the Statement pick above? Surely they weren't built by a clever, rich, enthusiast?:D

Justin
 
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the pics posted by Robin are of Gilbert Yeung's E2 setup. Gilbert is the head honcho of Blue Circle. Apparently he custom-made these amps for his speakers and have no intention of selling them -- or packaging them in a way that consumers might appreciate!

Given Gilbert's renowned circuit-design abilities, I would not say anything against that setup until I've heard them myself.
 
'Yeung already owned 15 pairs of MartinLogan speakers, but he said the Statement was essential to complete his dream setup.

"You have to put it in perspective: after you spend $80,000 on the speaker, how much more money are you going to spend on the room and the electronics?" Yeung said. "That can add up to maybe $350,000 easily."

Though he makes a good living with his high-end amplifier business, Yeung emphasized that he bought the Statement because he wanted the best sound system in the world, not because he wanted to show off.

"I'm driving an eight-and-a-half year-old station wagon that leaks oil and coolant; I live in a house that is 120 years old ... my computer is seven years old and I don't have a TV," he said. "I just set my priority to audio. And I'm single -- that helps."'

So he isn't rich, he just has his priorities right!;):music:
 
Call it what you may ! I would not buy a Lamborghini's or a Ferrari and put park them out side ! Certain speakers are meant to have a porpoise built room to get the best out of them. In this case the Statement. Why build a system that is meant to be no holds and stuff it in a closet. Would you run cheap fuel in a Ferrari! Its the Best of the best ! Working with the best room and ancilieries to get the best out of them. Kind of like the worlds best DR, you cant expect him to perform his best unless he has the best there is to work with. I will say it again. THE ROOM IS THE SINGLE LARGEST FACTOR IN THE SYSTEM. You can stuff a Statement into a poor room and you get poor sound. If you are paying $80k for a set of speakers you better have the room for them.
 
Given Gilbert's renowned circuit-design abilities, I would not say anything against that setup until I've heard them myself.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can stuff a Statement into a poor room and you get poor sound. If you are paying $80k for a set of speakers you better have the room for them.

I'm not disagreeing with this statement, CAP. What I am saying is that you can't judge how a room sounds by a picture -- especially a room that has been acoustically treated. Both of those Statement systems pictured above may sound absolutely awesome in the rooms they are in. Without auditioning them, we have no idea how they sound. And we have no idea about the people that own them.

I just disagree with Richard lambasting someone's system based solely on a picture when he has never seen the room or heard the system, and then drawing the conclusion that "all rich people are idiots" based on his own preconceived notions of what a Statement setup should look like.

In a forum such as this, that brings in all types of folks with all types of systems and preferences and ability levels, we should be careful about calling anyone an idiot because of the choices they make with their system. We may disagree with their choices, but that is no call to insult them for it.
 
I just disagree with Richard lambasting someone's system based solely on a picture when he has never seen the room or heard the system, and then drawing the conclusion that "all rich people are idiots" based on his own preconceived notions of what a Statement setup should look like.

In a forum such as this, that brings in all types of folks with all types of systems and preferences and ability levels, we should be careful about calling anyone an idiot because of the choices they make with their system. We may disagree with their choices, but that is no call to insult them for it.

Richard has a point, the Statements do deserve a larger room. However, I have no doubt that those who have Statements - atleast the majority - are not in a small room by choice, but rather because like us, they have limitations despite their added wealth. Not everyone who can afford the Statements can also afford a Rives Audio room.

In other words I thoroughly agree with Rich as well.
 
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Martin Logan CLX ~ McIntosh System...

:bowdown:A lovely CLX / McIntosh set-up shown in Germany... :bowdown:
 

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20K ~ CLX Speakers Beauties...

:DA couple of colors shown here classic black and 'Rich' red... :D
 

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