I'm not sure I love my Stage...

[Feltran]

A while back, I bought a Stage speaker to complement my Spires in a home theater setup. For various reasons, it sat in the box for about six months, and I was doing HT with just my Spires. I was pretty happy this way, I wasn't completely sure why people bothered with center channel speakers at all, but since I had never heard a system with and without a center channel speaker, I had no way to know except to experiment.

So, about a month ago I finally got around to setting up my Stage. Within minutes, I had decided that having a center channel speaker really did help. It made the sound in movies much more dynamic, and overall produced a pretty great effect. I definitely like having a center channel speaker.

However, it's the Stage itself that I'm not sold on. I don't think it's an attractive looking speaker, and not only am I not sure that it pairs very well with the Spires, I'm not sure the sound quality is very good at all. Now, I have no center channel speakers to compare it to, but here are my complaints:
It sounds a little bit... I don't know if tinny is the word, but a type of sound that I would expect from a much less expensive speaker. Not bad, just not good.
The sound seems to come about 15% from the side woofers, 5% from the panel, and 80% from the tiny little cone in the middle. Almost makes it seem like a Bose Jewel Cube would have the same effect.
I can't tell if it's the recording of the voice tracks or the speaker, but voices often don't sound lifelike to me.


Am I just ignorant of center channel speakers? Have other people had similar experiences with the Stage? Is there another center channel speaker that might have better sound without being a total eyesore? Might my Stage be damaged?

 

[Rich]

How much have you broken it in? It isn't going to sound its best until it has had a few hundred hours at a pretty good decibel level in order to break in those woofers.

I had an experience similar to yours when I first demoed the stage. But upon subsequent demos, and now after owning one for several years, I am very happy with the sound I get. So it could just be a break-in issue. Or it could be how well it mates with your pre/pro and amp combination. But it should match up pretty well with your Spires for HT. Just a few thoughts to consider.

 

[FISH_MAN]

for one thing its not a spire that's for sure but it is made in such a way that it seems to enhance the voices of many movies sort of focusing them in a way I like that about it. some movies seem to image so good from the spires its almost as if you have a center channel but its really then composed of two much more expensive and larger speakers using more electrostatic material for most of what you are hearing how can it compete with that.this being said for most movies I prefer it with my stage I really like this center channel I previously owned the cinema i which was not so good in my opinion it had many problems. the stage speaker is very sensitive to the source material have you heard any blue-ray discs threw it yet most of them sound awesome it will really show of any weakness though. last night I was watching the blue-ray full metal jacket the sound really sucked bad if my stage sounded like that it would end up in the garbage but put in say the Patriot with Mel Gibson and the sound is awesome ! ya I like war movies what can I say. comedies are also great with the stage it really showcases the voices.

as for that little speaker in the middle it is very detailed and sensitive I seem to like it I wounder if you need some EQ adjustment? can we see a pic of how it is set up?what are you driving it with?

one thing that really sold me is the look I though it matched martin logans new lineup very well. I think once you spend some more time with it it will grow on you and then you wont want to live without it. center channels do sound a bit different if you are used to listening to a 2 channel system
anyway good luck with it

 

[Feltran]

can we see a pic of how it is set up?what are you driving it with?

I've been meaning to upload my system for... Wow this is getting ridiculous. I'll have it up within 48 hours, if not much sooner.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Commenting on the sound of your Stage without knowing what kind of electronics you have driving it, is nye impossible or so the science guy would say.

It would definitely help to see the room and get an idea of the overall setup. Is this a 3 speaker system, 5.1, 6.1 7.2????? Do you have room treatments, do you have room correction software????? So many questions so little time

 

[Rich]

I've been meaning to upload my system for... Wow this is getting ridiculous. I'll have it up within 48 hours, if not much sooner.

Don't worry. I've got you beat on that one by a long shot. And I bet yours is up before mine is.

 

[robertawillisjr]

Lots of people don't use center channels, IF they are the only ones watching/listening. If you have people sitting off-axis, then a center channel is a must for HT.

 

[JMAUSGP]

On the other hand, if you decide to get rid of your Stage, PM me.

I happen to run a small orphanage for unloved, abused and abandoned Martin Logan's, currently we have 16 orphans living with us

They seem happy, they are always singing and carrying on, I am sure that your Stage would be happy here and we would give them plenty of LOVE

 

[JayJayHache]

I've tried 3 different Centre arrangements so far:

'Pe sat perfectly (ie 2 centre seats between the prodigies)

Matched centre - using a 3rd speaker as identical as possible to the Front left and right - but behind an AT projector screen (I actually use 2x ascent i's sat together to produce 1 large speaker as I only have 2 prodigies)

Normal centre positioned above the screen - my least fav as things seem to sound too much like a conventional speaker.

When I was demoing the CLX at the UK hifi show I remember discussing centre channels with the ML engineer that was running the dems:- he confirmed that the Stage was never meant to be the flagship centre long-term - and they were working on something especially high-end to keep up with the CLX. WAF was his principle reason for releasing the stage over the Theater i.

 

[Irishtom]

I never heard a speaker I didn't like "break in" and become one I liked.

Besides, there are speakers out there you're gonna like right off the bat.

 

[Mantana]

I never heard a speaker I didn't like "break in" and become one I liked.

Besides, there are speakers out there you're gonna like right off the bat.

I totally agree....

I've had speakers i liked immediately and after breaking in, they
just got better. I've also owned a few speakers that were too
bright, thin or aggressive from the start... i hoped break-in
would tame these qualities, but invariably, i remained disappointed
in the speaker (Thiel 1.5, Monitor Audio GS60 come to mind).

 

[FISH_MAN]

I never heard a speaker I didn't like "break in" and become one I liked.

Besides, there are speakers out there you're gonna like right off the bat.

my fresco i's sounded like stir fried crap when I first hooked them up. I remember the sinking feeling in my stomach after hearing them. well after a week they sounded great to me they just needed some time

 

[Rvega003]

props on that orphanage comment JMAUSGP, I broke down in laughter in front of my computer.

 

[Dublin25]

Fish... was it after a week they sounded better or you just got used to them.

I had my stage hooked up to a Rotel Amp and also a Pioneer SC-05 receiver and it did sound like crap. When I changed out the Pioneer (or I call it Craponeer now) with a Denon 4308, and then my Mcintosh 252 - it sounded unbelieveably better.

 

[FISH_MAN]

Fish... was it after a week they sounded better or you just got used to them.

I had my stage hooked up to a Rotel Amp and also a Pioneer SC-05 receiver and it did sound like crap. When I changed out the Pioneer (or I call it Craponeer now) with a Denon 4308, and then my Mcintosh 252 - it sounded unbelieveably better.

the fresco i's really did get better.I think often salesman even say break in on amps because they know you will not have as much chance of return if you spend more time with it but this was real

 

[DTB300]

was it after a week they sounded better or you just got used to them.

If people think something sounds better in their setup and their room after a period of time who are we to question it? :rocker: Hopefully the change was for the better!!!!

IMO, the true way to find out if a component, cable, or whatever changes over time is to own two of them and compare the aged one to the brand new one. Not an easy thing for most of us to do

 

[Irishtom]

If people think something sounds better in their setup and their room after a period of time who are we to question it?

I never question a person's preference. However since we are talking about machinery it behooves us to take a mechanical view of claims about the workings of this stuff. A mechanic or engineer wants to know if something is actually happening and if something is wants to know it's nature.

I think it's pretty well understood that many audiophiles BS themselves and are subject to suggestion. Hell, I've BSed myself at times so I've no doubt that others do the same.

 

[Feltran]

I have my system posted now (link in my signature). I'll try and get a photo of the rest of the room uploaded too.

 

[JonFo]

...
It sounds a little bit... I don't know if tinny is the word, but a type of sound that I would expect from a much less expensive speaker. Not bad, just not good.
The sound seems to come about 15% from the side woofers, 5% from the panel, and 80% from the tiny little cone in the middle. Almost makes it seem like a Bose Jewel Cube would have the same effect.
I can't tell if it's the recording of the voice tracks or the speaker, but voices often don't sound lifelike to me.

I have a silly question, have you made sure the power transformer feeding the ESL energizer is properly hooked up and powered?

Last Stage I saw where the complaints were similar (and I was there, at a forum members home who shall remain nameless ), the problem was the maids had disconnected the power brick lead from the back of the stage. The brick was plugged into the wall, but not the speaker. Presto, tinny sound.


Also, a Stage benefits tremendously from having the rear wave of the panel absorbed.
As a test, place a thick, folded over thick bath towel (get about 1" thickness at least) on the wall / surface directly behind the stage.
this will dramatically clean up the midrange, making dialog ineligibility much better.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I also own a Stage, which I have been quite pleased with. In my setup, the previous CC was the Cinema i. While some recommend Vantage owners use the Motif, I think if at all possible, swing for the Stage.

I along with many was somewhat surprised at how much smaller it is than the Theater i. However, the same can be said of all of the current generation of ML's.

I suppose the thing to do is audition the Theater, Logos, et al and decide for yourself. I realize that is far easier said than done.
ML