Before you start taking actions, consider why all newspapers look virtually the same, down to the font. There is no excuse for what Rich did, but be careful how you approach it.
I highly urge you to boycott Vinylphile.com
- Thread starter tonepub
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
Before you start taking actions, consider why all newspapers look virtually the same, down to the font. There is no excuse for what Rich did, but be careful how you approach it.
tonepub
Senior Member
What is the saying . . . Imitation is the best form of flattery? Or something like that. My guess (and hope) is that Richteer is just a novice trying to get something started and doesn't have a clue about the legal/moral implications of copying someone else's layout and artistic style. Perhaps when he sees this thread, he will quickly redesign his site and apologize for the imposition.
RichTeer
Well-known member
Mea Culpa...
Hi all,
Jeff makes some serious allegations, to which I would like to respond.
First: What Jeff says in the first 3 paragraphs of the OP are 100% accurate. Jeff and Jean did welcome Jenny and I into their home, did buy us a nice dinner, and Jeff has been more helpful than I could have ever imagined with my vinyl-centric online magazine business. All of which I am very thankful and greatful for.
It is also true that in an example of "immitation being the sincerest form of flattery" I took a lot of inspiration for my web site's design from Jeff's, and in doing so I inadvertantly crossed the line of fair play. For this, I unreservedly apologise to Jeff.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the copyright for the banners on Jeff's site was owned by the advertisers, so I thought no harm would be done if I copied them while I developed my site and used them as place holders until I could replace them with my own customers' ads. For this too, I unresevedly apologise to Jeff.
The minute Jeff notified me in a private email of his displeasure about the similarities between his site and mine, I set about rectifing the matter. The offending banner ads were removed immediately, and I have just updated the look and feel of my site. Although there are still some similarities between my site and Jeff's, I hope that the differences are sufficient enough that there is a clear distinction between the two.
That being said, a relatively sparse, "clean" look, and the use of red and white text and logos feature in a few other web sites that I have developed. And the choice of font was coincidental: I just scrolled through the list of fonts Adobe Illustrator comes with, and went with one I liked the look of (I previously used Helvetica).
I admit it: I made a bad judgement call and a big mistake. I'd like to assure Jeff and everyone else that there was never any ill intent on my part, nor do I bear Jeff any ill will. I apologised to Jeff in a private email before I knew of this thread, and I'll do it again here, publically: Jeff, I am truely very sorry for my lapses in judgement, and I hope you accept my sincerest, unreserved apologies. I considered you a friend (or at least, a friendly acquaintance) before this shit storm broke, and I hope that after the dust has settled, we can remain friends.
I hope that this is the end of this, and that neither of us does something we regret later.
Hi all,
Jeff makes some serious allegations, to which I would like to respond.
First: What Jeff says in the first 3 paragraphs of the OP are 100% accurate. Jeff and Jean did welcome Jenny and I into their home, did buy us a nice dinner, and Jeff has been more helpful than I could have ever imagined with my vinyl-centric online magazine business. All of which I am very thankful and greatful for.
It is also true that in an example of "immitation being the sincerest form of flattery" I took a lot of inspiration for my web site's design from Jeff's, and in doing so I inadvertantly crossed the line of fair play. For this, I unreservedly apologise to Jeff.
I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that the copyright for the banners on Jeff's site was owned by the advertisers, so I thought no harm would be done if I copied them while I developed my site and used them as place holders until I could replace them with my own customers' ads. For this too, I unresevedly apologise to Jeff.
The minute Jeff notified me in a private email of his displeasure about the similarities between his site and mine, I set about rectifing the matter. The offending banner ads were removed immediately, and I have just updated the look and feel of my site. Although there are still some similarities between my site and Jeff's, I hope that the differences are sufficient enough that there is a clear distinction between the two.
That being said, a relatively sparse, "clean" look, and the use of red and white text and logos feature in a few other web sites that I have developed. And the choice of font was coincidental: I just scrolled through the list of fonts Adobe Illustrator comes with, and went with one I liked the look of (I previously used Helvetica).
I admit it: I made a bad judgement call and a big mistake. I'd like to assure Jeff and everyone else that there was never any ill intent on my part, nor do I bear Jeff any ill will. I apologised to Jeff in a private email before I knew of this thread, and I'll do it again here, publically: Jeff, I am truely very sorry for my lapses in judgement, and I hope you accept my sincerest, unreserved apologies. I considered you a friend (or at least, a friendly acquaintance) before this shit storm broke, and I hope that after the dust has settled, we can remain friends.
I hope that this is the end of this, and that neither of us does something we regret later.
amey01
Well-known member
That's a better link, and yes - it's pretty similar!
I agree with Rich - and I also think you should talk to him first. It may be / hopefully is an honest oversight.
We've got a thread 24 posts long, but have you even spoken to him?
I agree with Rich - and I also think you should talk to him first. It may be / hopefully is an honest oversight.
We've got a thread 24 posts long, but have you even spoken to him?
RichTeer
Well-known member
I was typing my reply when yours appeared, but you hit the nail right on the head. Many thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
I never saw the original site... I don't think... The one I see now looks fairly modest... But, I would like to chime in here - from someone that used to develop for the web....
1) I appreciate Jeff's position... I don't know what went down - but, I like both of you guys and appreciate your posts and responses to mine.
2) I understand as a developer, that often times you can grab the basic structure from another page or site to aid in your development. what I see here from RichT's site is a structural beginning. Maybe it looked different when this thread started - I don't know.
3) Jeff, people like your site not necessarily for its layout, but for what you WRITE!! It is the CONTENT that makes your Tone Audio site so great. I understand your anger - and I would have thought after your insights/help were given that RichT would have shared the url with you in test phase? Or, maybe this is the test phase I am looking at, I don't know. In any case, all I see is a basic structure, a start... to a page without any meat on it...
Just an edit here..I just went to look at Jeff's site again (I have trouble downloading...old Adobe program...) and yes Rich's site is a basic structure for a start as I said....which looks an awful lot like Jeff's layout.....but, I guess we all know that... I hope you guys can iron this out....no lawyers....please..... Guns or knives is more honorable!! I would suggest RichT post his site to theforum after the modifications ?? I think the concept is kind of cool....
1) I appreciate Jeff's position... I don't know what went down - but, I like both of you guys and appreciate your posts and responses to mine.
2) I understand as a developer, that often times you can grab the basic structure from another page or site to aid in your development. what I see here from RichT's site is a structural beginning. Maybe it looked different when this thread started - I don't know.
3) Jeff, people like your site not necessarily for its layout, but for what you WRITE!! It is the CONTENT that makes your Tone Audio site so great. I understand your anger - and I would have thought after your insights/help were given that RichT would have shared the url with you in test phase? Or, maybe this is the test phase I am looking at, I don't know. In any case, all I see is a basic structure, a start... to a page without any meat on it...
Just an edit here..I just went to look at Jeff's site again (I have trouble downloading...old Adobe program...) and yes Rich's site is a basic structure for a start as I said....which looks an awful lot like Jeff's layout.....but, I guess we all know that... I hope you guys can iron this out....no lawyers....please..... Guns or knives is more honorable!! I would suggest RichT post his site to theforum after the modifications ?? I think the concept is kind of cool....
Last edited:
TrumpetDoug
Well-known member
Great classy reply RichTeer. The stand-up guy thing to do. I appreciate both you and Jeff on this site.
Doug - out
Doug - out
Audiophiliac
Well-known member
This issue is between 2 people. I am not siding with anyone or trying to add to the drama.
HOWEVER, I am curious though if these designs are based on elements that are generically included with the software used to create the sites (was it the same software used in both cases?)? In other words, if I sat down with the same program and designed a site with no outside influence or inspiration, is there any possibility it could end up looking like someone else's? Just throwing it out there.
HOWEVER, I am curious though if these designs are based on elements that are generically included with the software used to create the sites (was it the same software used in both cases?)? In other words, if I sat down with the same program and designed a site with no outside influence or inspiration, is there any possibility it could end up looking like someone else's? Just throwing it out there.
I personally would not have not aired my dirty laundry on the net when it comes to a new competitor if that's what you want to call it.I think your magazine has more to offer Jeff than you give yourself credit for. I myself will continue to read your publication because I like your content, your opinion, and the way you review things.just my two cents but I am much more passive aggressive when it comes to these matters.
amey01
Well-known member
I wondered the same thing - and there's plenty of templates, HTML / CSS / etc out there from which both sites could have originated without influence from each other.
In the end it is the content that matters, and if the content is great I don't mind if the site looks like a UNIX terminal with green text on black background........in fact, I'd rather it because it is easier on the eye and loads faster!
tonepub
Senior Member
Our site wasn't built from a template. None of our content is.
I take this very seriously and have invested the last 6 years of my life as well as hundreds of thousands of dollars in the development of our content.
We will be watching the first issue of this very closely as will my attorney.
I take this very seriously and have invested the last 6 years of my life as well as hundreds of thousands of dollars in the development of our content.
We will be watching the first issue of this very closely as will my attorney.
User211
Well-known member
Hm... perhaps by asking people to boycott it, more attention has been brought to it than it currently deserves.
This wouldn't be the first time this sort of thing happens. I've had my work copied before, and other people have taken the credit for it. I know how it feels - bad, in a word.
Rich Teer's posts in the past have always been pretty reasonable, I think. Rather than go in hard, I'd give him some time to sort what he has done out. I think what he has said is a fair indicator that things will change.
The reality is, Rich Teer should have fully developed his website as a local host, before going live with it. That way, all the upset would have been avoided. What 'local host' means is that you effectively use your own machine to host the website until it is fully developed and ready to publish. Additionally, no one ever sees a poor implementation - which never helps a brand's image.
Hm - I'm a s/w chap with 24 years development experience. Maybe I should get into this game - sure I could do a highly interactive website using C#/ASP.NET
Only joking...
This wouldn't be the first time this sort of thing happens. I've had my work copied before, and other people have taken the credit for it. I know how it feels - bad, in a word.
Rich Teer's posts in the past have always been pretty reasonable, I think. Rather than go in hard, I'd give him some time to sort what he has done out. I think what he has said is a fair indicator that things will change.
The reality is, Rich Teer should have fully developed his website as a local host, before going live with it. That way, all the upset would have been avoided. What 'local host' means is that you effectively use your own machine to host the website until it is fully developed and ready to publish. Additionally, no one ever sees a poor implementation - which never helps a brand's image.
Hm - I'm a s/w chap with 24 years development experience. Maybe I should get into this game - sure I could do a highly interactive website using C#/ASP.NET
Only joking...
Last edited:
Story of my life, I have some stories I could tell as an architect and before as a architectural student.
If you have never been ripped off, then you never had an idea or work good enough to be stolen.
JRace
Well-known member
But I said it first, or loudest, or to the right person, before you..............and those are the rules of the game.HEY! That is my line!
I liked it when I said it the first time.
I could go on, but I'm just trying too hard to be silly now.
Audiophiliac
Well-known member
Who watched the Fiesta Bowl? Woohoo!!! BSU....14-0!!! Maybe not as exciting as the '07 Fiesta bowl, but we still tore it up! Go Broncos!! Next year will be even better.
Similar threads
