First Post - Looking for input on Atmos Speakers

[Quetzal]

Greetings, Folks!

I ran across this forum while searching for information on ceiling speakers to implement in my ML system. I recently upgraded my mains from SL3s to 15As. For TH use, I am using a Stage as center (to be upgraded to a 34A within the year), with EFXs being used at side and rear.

I’m looking for input on the best match for in-ceiling Atmos (still debating between 4 and 6) from others that have installed or demoed various options.

Thanks!

 

[Brad225]

Welcome Quetazl. As a former SL3 owner the 15A is a HUGE step up in speakers, congratulations.

As for your surround system, JonFo will be with you shortly. He is clearly the multi-channel wizard here. He is usually busy with work so, you might find one of his posts and reach out to him. He will be a wealth of knowledge for you. Don't be surprised if you end up with 12 Atmos speakers.

Good luck, keep us updated with your progress.

 

[Quetzal]

Excellent! In the meantime, I will search for previous posts by JonFo.

Thanks!

 

[GW1800]

I have used the ML-Vanquish and like them very much. They are heavy and large but sound great. I think at CEDIA ML came out with some more speakers so not sure if the Vanquish will be replaced by one of these or not. I did talk to my dealer at the time and thought they were not.

 

[Quetzal]

Thanks for the input on the Vanquish - I was considering that speaker, but wondered if it wasn’t overkill. I don't have any experience w/ Atmos yet, so I don't really have a good sense of what is required to properly reproduce what is in the soundtrack, integral to the rest of the system (part of why I'm looking for input here!). They are quite large (I believe the cutout required is ~ 13"), and have an MSRP of $1599/each (I can install six Helos 12 for not much more than a single Vanquish!). I'm open to looking into them if there is a huge benefit to going that way... but is it worth it for Atmos? Unfortunately, I have not auditioned any ML in-ceiling speakers.

A quick internet search revealed the Sistine 4XC, which is the new ceiling speaker that I assume you are referring to. It looks like they will have an MSRP of about $2000/ea when available. They look pretty spectacular. When it is formally released, I wonder if the Vanquish price point will drop (assuming it stays in the line-up)…

 

[ttocs]

I don't have Atmos yet, but my limited understanding about selecting speakers is that it's best that all the satellites be the same, or at least very similar - same series, in order to have good transitions from speaker to speaker for the objects moving around.

An all Vanquish setup would be seriously awsome! Overkill? Depends on how you think about it. In a top notch dedicated room, I wouldn't think of it as being overkill. Better is better.

 

[GW1800]

Quetzal - I have 6 Vanquish speakers with 13's/Focus you are going with 15a's and I assume a nice large room if you are thinking 4 or 6 ATMOS speakers. I just have a 7.2.2 system and use four of the Vanquish for surrounds and just two for Atmos. I thought of going with smaller also at the time as these are not cheap but they do put out and go pretty low also. You can adjust for L or R placement. Yes they are large and heavy but they do a great job.

As a side note I have the Anthem AVM60 and with the latest ARC software released a few months back it just fantastic how it handles all the speakers with just the standard setup. So much better then before and it was not all that bad before.

 

[Quetzal]

The room is not as large as I would have made it had I been involved in the design of the house. While not ideal, it is what I have to work with. The dimensions are essentially 18' x 18'

If I go w/ Vanquish Atmos speakers, I'll likely need to stick to just 4 of them. I'm working on a placement drawing right now.

 

[Cherian]

If you are going to install 4 to 6 for height I would look at the Electro Motion R. I feel the Vanquish is overkill for heights and will set you back almost $10k for 6. Another option is to go with ElectroMotion IW for front heights and the Electro Motions R for heights in ceiling. I use the Electro Motion R in ceiling and they sound great.

 

[Quetzal]

Thanks for the continued input. After further investigation of Dolby's speaker placement guidelines, it looks like all I'll be able to do is 7.2.2. Due to the size of the room, the height of the ceiling, and seating location to stay within ML's recommended listening position, I don't have enough room to install rear height ceiling speakers (they would need to be three feet on the other side of the rear wall).

 

[JonFo]

Hi Quetzal, sorry to be late for the party, but first week of the year is a busy week.

A couple of thoughts, first to respond to the speaker recommendation. The challenge of not being able to do 4 tops is bummer, as that typically results in a much better ability for the renderer to place objects in the room (not just the tops). But it still works with 2, as my small media room is a 5.4.2 (the 4 in the middle is because there are four subs) and the Atmos effect is still good. But nowhere near what the 5.4.4 ML setup in the HT can do.
So the model that would work in your space is the EletroMotion R. It has the tweeter concentric to the woofer, which means an aligned sound-source, and for tops, Coaxial alignments are preferred. My HT tops are JBL SCS8 are coax and image (and blend) just fine.

The other item to address is the room size ratio, which is square (18'x18'), this is one of the worst for bass modes. But no worries, there is a fix, just use multiple subs. I had the same problem in my media room, it is 11.5'x11.5'x9', so almost a cube, but with 4 small subs, the bass is very smooth, see this thread for more info and details. http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?17591-Media-room-%96-quad-ML-sub-setup

Do you have a sketch of the seating and speaker placement you could share? I might be able to offer some suggestions.

 

[Quetzal]

So, all of the comments about room dimensions have caused me to rethink the entire organization of the room. The room is not exactly 18' x 18' - there is an additional ~ 12' x 3' section on one side. I was essentially ignoring this in my plans, as I was trying to keep all speakers equal distance. If I ignore the pre-wiring that has been done, however, including the on-wall receptacle and ethernet & cable connections (I was already planning on running different speaker cable then the builder put in), rotate my design 90°, and adjust the separation distance of the main speakers, I think I can make this work. I might even be able to squeeze in a second row of seating (TBD).

It's going to take quite a bit of drywall work, and more time that I'll have the wife harassing me about not having the room clean, organized and functional, but in the long run is probably the best choice.

I'll work on drawings, and post later.

BTW... rather than continue in the original thread in the "New Member Introductions" section, should I start a new thread elsewhere?

 

[JonFo]

...

I'll work on drawings, and post later.

BTW... rather than continue in the original thread in the "New Member Introductions" section, should I start a new thread elsewhere?

Yes, please do start a new thread in the main forum. I'll chine on that once you post.