CLX Upgrade: Things To Be Aware Of

[jmschnur]

Actually there was a super majority for about 4 months, but several of the final 4 were very very conservative democrats .


Best to look at jobs gained or lost in the fall of 2008 and the early spring of 2009 and then compare with jobs gained or lost in the fall of 2011 and the spring of 2012 to make some judgement of the stimulus.

Net change per month turns put to be +800000 jobs per month or so.

One must also factor in the earthquake last year in Japan etc.

Tough to assess impact of all factors.


When assessing the pros and cons of a particular strategy it is good to look at hard data.

There was a lot of republican buzz about Obama induced gasoline price rise.

Does the recent decline in the price of gas mean Obama did something, or as he said he really did not have much control over short term fluctuations, or.....?

J

 

[cocobob]

Okay I must have open this can of worms by my post.Should not have.I just join and injoy my new ML Vistas.So lets just stop this and time will tell.
One thing I must admit is ML is one of the few companies to even offer a warranty longer than a year anymore.5 years is quite the oddity now days.
And what is with some saying the panels die after 7 years or so.I have friends who have quite older ML's and they still sound great.

 

[Bernard]

And what is with some saying the panels die after 7 years or so.I have friends who have quite older ML's and they still sound great.

Panels are like tubes. They degrade so slowly that you don't notice it until you listen to fresh pair.

 

[Rich]

Panels are like tubes. They degrade so slowly that you don't notice it until you listen to fresh pair.

This is true. Also, like tubes, Martin Logan panel life is highly variable. It is not uncommon for the panels to degrade and/or fail completely in under ten years and it is not uncommon for them to last more than fifteen. But they will fail at some point and have to be replaced. That is simply the nature of the panels constructed the way ML constructs them. As mentioned above, this is not necessarily the case with electrostatic panels made using other techniques by other manufacturers. As I pointed out earlier, Roger Sanders claims to have never had a failure of his Ultrastat panels, although I'm not sure how long a time frame he has been producing those panels. SoundLabs says their electrostatic speakers experience no degradation with time, assuming they are properly cared for. SoundLabs also has a policy that: "any product we manufacture can be brought up to the present technical level at a reasonable cost."

 

[jmschnur]

The newer ML panels are made somewhat differently than previous ones. Does the change in the process lead to better (or worse) lifetimes?

No data yet of course : to soon to tell .


J

 

[tsv_1]

This is true. Also, like tubes, Martin Logan panel life is highly variable. It is not uncommon for the panels to degrade and/or fail completely in under ten years and it is not uncommon for them to last more than fifteen. But they will fail at some point and have to be replaced. That is simply the nature of the panels constructed the way ML constructs them. As mentioned above, this is not necessarily the case with electrostatic panels made using other techniques by other manufacturers. As I pointed out earlier, Roger Sanders claims to have never had a failure of his Ultrastat panels, although I'm not sure how long a time frame he has been producing those panels. SoundLabs says their electrostatic speakers experience no degradation with time, assuming they are properly cared for. SoundLabs also has a policy that: "any product we manufacture can be brought up to the present technical level at a reasonable cost."

It would be good (and fair) to hear what Peter or Justin have to say about all this panel failure/deterioration discussion. I have to think they are monitoring this thread (bobbing and weaving through the various posts )

 

[Hocky]

The newer ML panels are made somewhat differently than previous ones. Does the change in the process lead to better (or worse) lifetimes?

No data yet of course : to soon to tell .


J

My ~5yr old Summits are starting to show some rippling in the corners of the mylar and I doubt that much has changed since my Summit X seemed to be identical.

 

[MOON]

It would be good (and fair) to hear what Peter or Justin have to say about all this panel failure/deterioration discussion. I have to think they are monitoring this thread (bobbing and weaving through the various posts )

Todd,
I would add one more word to that panel failure/deterioration which would be/REPLACEMENT PANEL COST in regards to the other forum topic running on this http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...etime-Service-for-MartinLogan-Products/page14

 

[jmschnur]

Have you called ML about the rippling and asked for panel replacement under warranty?


J

 

[Hocky]

Have you called ML about the rippling and asked for panel replacement under warranty?


J

I bought my Summits second hand, so no warranty. They're probably beyond that by a bit, anyway. I am not worried about it, really, since I had planned on replacing the panels, but I would have rather paid $800 from a few months ago than the $2400 from today. lol

 

[jmschnur]

I think you should still ask. Can't hurt.


J

 

[tsv_1]

Todd,
I would add one more word to that panel failure/deterioration which would be/REPLACEMENT PANEL COST in regards to the other forum topic running on this http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...etime-Service-for-MartinLogan-Products/page14

absolutely

 

[Len44]

Todd,
I would add one more word to that panel failure/deterioration which would be/REPLACEMENT PANEL COST in regards to the other forum topic running on this http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...etime-Service-for-MartinLogan-Products/page14

Good point. Also, some might wish to add: ML Policy regarding notification of current owners of pending price increases. In particular, some could easily construe these unforeseen, no-notice, tripling of the price for replacement panels as arbitrary and capricious.

I just cannot imagine that ANY company (in their right mind) would choose to pull the rug out from under an installed base of loyal owners, as ML appears to be doing in this instance.

And yes, I agree -- it would be nice for someone (anyone!) from ML to re-emerge and re-engage.

 

[User211]

Last para Len - I don't think they dare. They'll get crucified and they know it.

 

[jmschnur]

Be nice to see a price list for all the panels they sell.


J

 

[Bernard]

I wonder how large the installed base is of ML customers NOT on this forum.

 

[amey01]

I wonder how large the installed base is of ML customers NOT on this forum.

1. Do you think their attitude would be any different?

2. The ones on this forum would generally be more enthusiastic and more likely of repeat business.

The rest of the installed base probably just bought them because they look cool, on a whim, or will change for something else like ProAc / ADAM / Wilson / Avalon / Gryphon / etc just as easily.

 

[Bernard]

Adam, I was thinking more of the poor unsuspecting customers not on this forum who will get fleeced when it's time to replace their panels.

 

[MOON]

I wonder how large the installed base is of ML customers NOT on this forum.

Hi Bernard,
The membership on this site is quite small as I stated on page 11 of the other thread seen below.I would say the vast number of ML members don't belong to our site here when you compare the membership on other sites. However if word of this panel increase ever got into the forum section ofwww. audiogon.com, Audioaficondo,.audioassylum[/url], Canuck audio mart , etc, ML sales would plummit, so would any resale value of your current speakers.Once word gets out to the big sites, it's a done deal.

From page 11 of the other thread
I think it would be a mistake for Martin Logan to ignore our concerns.We are members on other audio sites which have a much greater membership than this site, they also have forum topic sctions. www.audioaficiondo.com has 60,000 members, www.canuckaudiomart.com has 41,500.www.audiogon has a huge membership as well as www.audioassylum. Our little community here has just over 2000 members.

 

[amey01]

Adam, I was thinking more of the poor unsuspecting customers not on this forum who will get fleeced when it's time to replace their panels.

Yes - poor them. But don't tell them yet - we haven't offloaded ours yet........