CLX Upgrade: Things To Be Aware Of

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If the ML COST $25K and the panels cost $8682 which is pretty much the whole speaker.I mean the panels are the main part.To me it seems dumm to pay $25k for them in the first place.I do not also see where Paridigm buying ML is a bad thing either.They make great speakers also that many love.All companies in the US are having to change and merge with other to survive this Socialist govermnet in the White House.Most have fled the US and I cant blame them.Hopefully this Nov we might see a needed change.
 
In his explanation about the reason for the price hikes, Scotty said:

"In addition, as requests for parts for our older MartinLogan products decline naturally, this results in higher increases in material costs. This is due to smaller minimum order purchases from our suppliers which cost significantly more than when these same components were purchased at much higher quantity levels as associated with active production. As a rule of thumb, supplier costs always go up when MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) goes down."

Does this mean that the price hike for CLX panels is because they are not making too many of them now, even though they are current production?
 
I would assume CLX panel replacement is like buying new tires for your car. You don't buy just one. If you did, I would think there would be a "voicing" issue.

Won't comment on ML policy other than to repeat what I've said elsewhere.

Seems to me they are intentionally manipulating (shortening) product shelf life with their replacement panel costs as well as causing a marked decrease in used speaker value. Not to mention alienating their loyal / repeat customer base.

What a shame.

GG
 
I do not also see where Paridigm buying ML is a bad thing either.They make great speakers also that many love.All companies in the US are having to change and merge with other to survive this Socialist govermnet in the White House.Most have fled the US and I cant blame them.Hopefully this Nov we might see a needed change.

First of all, Paradigm did not buy ML. Shoreview Industries (a private equity firm much like Romney's Bain Capital) bought both Paradigm and Martin Logan and then merged the two together and moved production from Kansas to Canada. For the record, Canada's "gubmint" is a heck of a lot more socialist than the US by any measure.

I bet you can't name one company that has had to "flee" the US Socialist regime. If anything, most of them stay based in the U.S. but have moved their manufacturing to China in order to take advantage of China's cheap COMMUNIST labor force. So capitalists don't really mind socialism, as long as they can use it to take advantage of people who have no voice; they just don't want any of it in their own back yard.
 
. I think its foolish to buy something for pleasure that your worried about selling without losing too much money before you even buy them. I did not mean to Chastize anyone here. Just saying enjoy life a little bit.

May I point out that with an attitude about money like that, I don't suspect you'll have $25,000 to spend on speakers for much longer.........
 
Does this mean that the price hike for CLX panels is because they are not making too many of them now, even though they are current production?

There's a lie in every sentence of Scotty's post Bernard........we've already picked most of it apart in the other thread - "Lifetime (sic) support"......
 
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If the ML COST $25K and the panels cost $8682 which is pretty much the whole speaker.I mean the panels are the main part.To me it seems dumm to pay $25k for them in the first place.

Not as "dumm" as spelling dumb incorrectly. The panel is not the whole speaker - there is:
1. Crossover
2. Bias electronics
3. Frame
4. Labour
5. Massive packaging and shipping costs for something as large as the CLX
6. Testing
and the big one.......
7. R & D

None of which impact on the cost of a consumable spare part.


Which is all pretty much moot anyway, because when a customer spends USD$25,000 on a pair of speakers (that could be had for as little as $100), they do so because they damn well expect perfection.

And a company collecting $USD25,000 from perfectionists needs to understand those customers. Near enough is NOT good enough for a customer in this league. As the panels start to fade in 6-7 years, a true audiophile is not going to sit back and think "oh well - it's good enough". Nor would I expect them to think "I'll keep them for another year or so, then chuck 'em in the rubbish and buy some new ones".
 
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Whoe! that is abit way off par for panel quote. ok I apologize if I have offended anyone. No intention of doing so.

Don't apologize!

We all have our opinions and if someone doesn't like your opinion tough U know what.

I have seen plenty of opinions on this site that i left alone.

That won't happen again and if they don't like it they can PM me anytime they want.


Yeah, Wilsons are better. Wish I had the coin.

Bob( Necro-Dad)
 
May I point out that with an attitude about money like that, I don't suspect you'll have $25,000 to spend on speakers for much longer.........


You know what, thanks Necro-pops for pointing out the obvious here. I live a life of live now and enjoy while I can. I work hard make good money and EARN what I have. I do not believe in taking my money to the grave nor giving it to the government when I’m dead. So I work hard and play hard. So Amey01, are you saying that My country is crap and I should expect it to fall apart soon? Or are you saying that I am an idiot and won’t keep my job for long? And I’d also Like to point out that if any one pays retail cost for CLX or anything in this world, you might be a little ignorant. I have never paid retail for anything EVER! You’d all be shocked if I told you what I paid for brand new CLX Arts. So I have been criticized as being condescending and having trees that grow money, I am now told that My attitude towards Money will fail and I should never expect to buy nice things in the future. Well, let me tell you.....HAHAHAHHAH. What a joke. This is exactly the same crap I have been accused of, Elitist attitude! I want nothing more to have a good time and for others to have a good time. I personally don’t care about re-sale values with things I enjoy, and if that makes me condescending then so be it. I just don’t care. You really think on my death bed m going to care that I lost $10k on speakers? ha-ha its laughable and if someone really thinks that way, then your life is sad. I truly am sorry if I made anyone here feel like second class citizens because I really do not like that kind of attitude and again THAT is all I apologize for! But I do not apologize for being who am I am and what I am and what I feel. If you feel the need to buy anything in life worrying about a re-sale value then that’s your deal, but it’s not mine and I will not apologize for that. I don’t care if my CLX are paper weights in 7 years, so what. Not worried about it and I am pretty sure a bunch of men on a web site forum are not going to change the world. I do agree that the ML price increases are ridiculous! I wish that did not happen. It sucks for all of us ML dedicated folks. I don’t care what league or job you have, it sucks. So go ahead and blast me, call me what you want, I don’t care. I enjoy
 
"I don’t care if my CLX are paper weights in 7 years, so what."

I am new here but I am a very long term electrostat lover and owner.
I can understand that comment if there was no other choice but given that there is why not buy say a SoundLab, for example, whose life expectancy is spoken of in terms of being an heirloom. The costs are in the same ballpark, you have a company that really cares about its customers (Roger West was very gracious and very prompt in his response to my questions), very deep base, they go loud and so on (yes they may not look as good as a CLX, but, hey, we buy our electrostats for they sound (primarily!).
There are posts on the planar circle which keeps bringing to attention lots of other electrostat manufacturers.
It seems to me that there is plenty of other electostat choice out there.
Hope that I am not out of line here but that is the question that comes to this potential buyer's mind.
Bruce
 
So Amey01, are you saying that My country is crap and I should expect it to fall apart soon? Or are you saying that I am an idiot and won’t keep my job for long?

Hey - I meant neither, so please don't misrepresent me. Did I mention your country our your job? No.

By that statement, I meant that while you may be a wealthy man now, you will not hold your wealth if you splash money around without care or concern.

That applies to any person, in any country, with any job.

Every wealthy person I know --EVERY-- wealthy person (some far wealthier than I) cares about their money and where it is going.

As an example, I have one close friend who sold a personal investment in commercial property for $AUD10,000,000 and spend the next day chasing up on a $70 cheque that was late. Quite simply that is why he is wealthy - he cares! And for the record, he has heard (and appreciated) my system and continues to listen to his through a Bose Sound dock.

The "live for now" mantra has some merit, but FACT: those that take it to the extreme can expect to spend their retirement in a caravan park.
 
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Hopefully this Nov we might see a needed change.

Yeah, getting rid of Mitch and his merry band of obstructionist republicans would be a most welcome change! Gleefully opposing everything which might improve things for our Country for cheap political gain is totally repugnant.
 
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Hey - I meant neither, so please don't misrepresent me. Did I mention your country our your job? No.

By that statement, I meant that while you may be a wealthy man now, you will not hold your wealth if you splash money around without care or concern.

That applies to any person, in any country, with any job.

Every wealthy person I know --EVERY-- wealthy person (some far wealthier than I) cares about their money and where it is going.

As an example, I have one close friend who sold a personal investment in commercial property for $AUD10,000,000 and spend the next day chasing up on a $70 cheque that was late. Quite simply that is why he is wealthy - he cares! And for the record, he has heard (and appreciated) my system and continues to listen to his through a Bose Sound dock.

The "live for now" mantra has some merit, but FACT: those that take it to the extreme can expect to spend their retirement in a caravan park.


Ok, thank you that makes more sense and is complete. Gordon I am chilling out now : Also amey01, I am not wealthy by any means, I am just good at finding amazing deals.
 
Ok, thank you that makes more sense and is complete. Gordon I am chilling out now : Also amey01, I am not wealthy by any means, I am just good at finding amazing deals.

No problem - I'm glad we understand each other. Sometimes when communicating by text only it is easy to misintepret!

It's great to find amazing deals!! I enjoy it too. :)

To get back on topic again (ie. what I meant before we started misintepreting each other) - just remember that an amazing deal consists not only of acquisition cost, but TCO.
 
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Yeah, getting rid of Mitch and his merry band of obstructionist republicans would be a most welcome change! Gleefully opposing everything which might improve things for our Country for cheap political gain is totally repugnant.

I really don't think you want to open this can of worms here. The other edge your sword is just as dull.
 
I really don't think you want to open this can of worms here. The other edge your sword is just as dull.

Actually, it was cocobob that opened this "can of worms" here in post #41, throwing in a spurious political attack in order to try to bolster a weak argument in favor of ML.

As for Lens remark, I would have to say it is dead-on. McConnell said years ago that his number one priority was making sure Obama was a one-term president. Number One Priority, mind you. Not fixing the economy. Not dealing with the tax code issues. Not dealing with the financial regulation issues. Not dealing with the long-term debt issues. Not dealing with the health care issue. Just seeing that this president wasn't re-elected. In their quest to do so, they have continued wrecking our economy by doing absolutely nothing but threatening to default on our debt. When politicians so blatantly put their political agendas above the good of the nation, they should be kicked out of office on their bums.
 
Actually, it was cocobob that opened this "can of worms" here in post #41, throwing in a spurious political attack in order to try to bolster a weak argument in favor of ML.

As for Lens remark, I would have to say it is dead-on. McConnell said years ago that his number one priority was making sure Obama was a one-term president. Number One Priority, mind you. Not fixing the economy. Not dealing with the tax code issues. Not dealing with the financial regulation issues. Not dealing with the long-term debt issues. Not dealing with the health care issue. Just seeing that this president wasn't re-elected. In their quest to do so, they have continued wrecking our economy by doing absolutely nothing but threatening to default on our debt. When politicians so blatantly put their political agendas above the good of the nation, they should be kicked out of office on their bums.

Come on Rich be serious. Obama and the Democrats had complete control of power for a few years and only ran the country deeper in debt. It seems like Democrats forget that little fact quite often.
 
Obama had the super majority for the first 2 years'All he did was push Obama care'nothing tp create jobs.
It's real simple really' If your the 50% and growing who do not work or want to and want Obama to take care of you at the expense of those who do work'then you vote Democrat. If you injoy working and not depend on the goverment the you vote Republican. But be carefull what you wish for'Because one day soon and it is coming those who work will finally stop also and lets see what happens then.It really is that simple.Bob
 
Come on Rich be serious. Obama and the Democrats had complete control of power for a few years and only ran the country deeper in debt. It seems like Democrats forget that little fact quite often.

Disagree. Unless you have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, you have no control of anything. Republicans seem to forget that there have been double the number of filibusters mounted in the last four years than in the previous term.

I could just as easily turn the tables and say that Bush had the Presidency and both houses for SIX of his eight years and what did the republicans accomplish? What did they do to reduce spending, reduce the debt, and boost the economy? Oh, that's right. They increased spending, increased the size of government, and increased the debt. They also had two recessions in eight years, the second of which has been the worst since the Great Depression. How are those tax cuts for the wealthy workin' out for ya? Have those job creators been working overtime with all that extra cash in their pockets? Nope, they are just stashing it in Swiss bank accounts and the Cayman islands, just like Romney. And you guys are falling for their BS hook, line, and sinker.


Obama had the super majority for the first 2 years'All he did was push Obama care'nothing tp create jobs.

First of all, you need to look up Supermajority, as you seem to have no clue what the term means. They had a slim majority in both houses, but had no ability to break filibusters in the Senate (needs a true supermajority, aka 60 votes), so no ability to strong-arm anything through. Second, I think you are forgetting the Stimulus package, opposed by republicans, that Obama pushed through, and that probably kept us from teetering over the edge into a true long-term depression. I do agree that the timing of the health care initiative wasn't the best, but if they wanted to get it done, they needed to do it while they did have slim majorities, given the way the republicans stone-walled health care reform during Clinton's term. Had the republicans worked with the democrats, instead of taking a purely obstructionist stance, they could have developed a much better plan than we ended up with. It is laughable that the this plan is almost identical to plans pushed by both Nixon and Romney, yet the republicans are trying to paint it as some socialist communist plot to destroy America, and you rubes are completely falling for that hogwash instead of actually looking at the plan and looking at the history and actually thinking for yourselves.

It's real simple really' If your the 50% and growing who do not work or want to and want Obama to take care of you at the expense of those who do work'then you vote Democrat. If you injoy working and not depend on the goverment the you vote Republican.

Is is that simple? Really? Then I must be an anomaly, having retired early and living off my own wealth and still voting democrat. Plenty of my friends who work hard at their jobs just to scrape by also vote democrat. What you propose in that sentence is pure idiocy. I think you meant to say: if you have a soul you vote democrat. If you are selfish, amoral, and have no soul, then you vote republican. That logic makes about as much sense as the logic you used. Fifty percent who aren't working? How do you come up with that number? You including all the retired baby boomers living off of social security that they paid into their whole lives?

But be carefull what you wish for'Because one day soon and it is coming those who work will finally stop also and lets see what happens then.It really is that simple.Bob

Blah, Blah, Blah. We have been hearing doomsday crap like that for ages. They said the same thing about racial integration. Yes, I am sure all these people who actually have jobs are just going to quit working because they don't want to pay any taxes to support roads, bridges, schools, and helping the poor and infirm to eat and have basic medical care. Give me a break! You need to quit reading Ayn Rand and start living in the real world.
 
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