Balanced Outputs/Inputs

[Charliemike]

How crucial is it to go balanced vs. unbalanced? Is it simply necessary or something that one can look towards down the road for improving an already good system?

 

[MOON]

Going to balanced cables will lower the noise floor dramatically and improve your sound a lot. I went to balanced cables between my amp and pre as well as the cdp to pre connection. I am using Cardas golden reference balanced cables.

Don't listen to the people who say they only make a difference over longer runs of cable. They make substancial differences over short runs as well, example , my .5 meter balanced cable between cdp and pre.

 

[Charliemike]

Going to balanced cables will lower the noise floor dramatically and improve your sound a lot. I went to balanced cables between my amp and pre as well as the cdp to pre connection. I am using Cardas golden reference balanced cables.

Don't listen to the people who say they only make a difference over longer runs of cable. They make substancial differences over short runs as well, example , my .5 meter balanced cable between cdp and pre.

Thanks moon!

 

[risabet]

Balanced circuits and cables are a benefit in environments with high RFI noise as by design they reject common mode noise in the equipment. The connectors can be XLR or 1/4 TRS for true balanced connections. In my experience using identical cables in balanced and unbalanced configurations the sound in low RFI environments is very similar as is the noise floor. In noisy environs than balanced wins hands down.

 

[jfm]

Some manufactuers seem to voice their gear for balanced mode, so even if they have both types of inputs/outputs they seem to sound better in balanced. I know that I prefer to run my ARC preamp and Meridian amp balanced. On the principle that it's best to run balanced all the way, I got a Cayin tube cdp with balanced outs. Later I would want to explore a balanced phono stage.

So that would leave only the listener unbalanced!

 

[ralflar]

Also keep in mind that the components at both ends of the balanced cable must be fully differential inside in order to take full advantage of balanced cables. And the longer a cable, the more it is susceptible to noise. Sorry - physics.

A nice write up by Geoff Meads of Arcam exists. He provides a short description of how and why balanced connections work, and describes where and why they are best used (between pre- and power amp over long runs). There is one (obvious and self-contradicting) error in that article; you will know it when you read it. Geoff Meads is honest about the cost versus benefit equation, too.

 

[IWalker]

If you have the choice between balanced and unbalanced...there's no reason I can think of not to go with balanced. The issue you run into is, a lot of good gear out there doesn't come with balanced connections, or has it only as an expensive upgrade option. Is it worth NOT considering this gear only because it doesn't have balanced connections? In a high RFI environ, maybe...otherwise...I'd say no.

 

[twich54]

I too am considering / weighing the benifits for after a recent conversation with Chris @ ARC it is of his recomendation given the configuration of my system, to use balanced XLR. I have been in the "can't get my ass in gear mode" for some time now regarding cables, I just hate spending money on the damn things ! I would like to try some silver between cd-pre-amp, I know Dan and a few others have touted DH Labs Revalation and their folks on another site that like Cat Cables "Kingcat". It would be nice to get two or three in XLR termination to demo

 

[amey01]

Balanced is theoretically better over long cable runs or where there is a lot of inteference, but it depends on the implementation. Balanced is also more complex and if the implementation is not perfect (and you have low inteference anyway) the balanced connection can often turn out to be inferior to the single ended connection. My suggestion is that unless you have any special requirements or reasons for going balanced then go with single ended.

 

[roberto]

Balanced is theoretically better over long cable runs or where there is a lot of inteference, but it depends on the implementation. Balanced is also more complex and if the implementation is not perfect (and you have low inteference anyway) the balanced connection can often turn out to be inferior to the single ended connection. My suggestion is that unless you have any special requirements or reasons for going balanced then go with single ended.

Hola guys...just my personal experience...I like tubes in single ended and SS balanced...I don´t know why is this, but SS gets more precise when its balanced. Most tubes at the lower mid range, I would say in the order of around 120 Hz to 160 Hz, there is like a bump, making this not so pleasant to my ears! just trust your ears and choose the one that you like most. As you can see, here at the forum, uses both ways. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[MiTT]

While I'm not an expert here, I think it also is important to point out that not all components sporting balanced connections are running true differential circuits, thereby questioning or even negating the supposed benefits of running balanced interconnects.

My Balanced Audio Technology pre-amp and amp both utilize full differential circuits and there is a significant benefit to be heard in running balanced cables between them. Same thing for the run between my Aesthetix phono stage and the pre-amp. I have not however heard a significant difference between my Esoteric DV-50S running balanced verses single ended cables. That could also be a difference in the level of cables as well though - all I had to use for comparison were some Synergistic Research Mk IV balanced cables compared to Resolution Reference X Series single ended, which I know for a fact are better cables.

 

[Robin]

Balanced "Rocks"...

I am currently using unbalanced in my system, however, I am working towards running fully balanced for my HT as well as my once-and-future seporate music audio system. I have auditioned and compaired McIntosh / B&W systems as well as Anthem Preamps and power amp / Paradgrim systems running unbalanced verse balanced. The balanced systems sounded noticably better to my ears, which is why I will slowly plan on converting over to an all balanced cabling someday... Having said that money is a huge issue for me as well, which is why it may take some time to convert my HT system. Although, for my exclusive, future music system I am planning, I will probably be looking at components with an eye toward balanced in-puts and out-puts.

 

[Beat_Dominator]

I asked everyone I know to get me Balanced cables for xmas Let's hope I get em and have good results!

I'll be sure to post impressions in here if it happens.

 

[tonyc]

Charliemike, the answer to your question depends on your system. Some equipment is voiced to be run balanced (and is designed with truly differential circuits) while others include XLR inputs/ouputs but not truly differential circuits. Examples in my system include the ARC Ref 3, Rowland 8T, Sonic Frontiers SFD2 DAC, and Ayre C5xe all designed to be run balanced with fully differential circuit design. When I hook these components up single ended with RCA interconnects I hear a more forward soundstage, a loss of openness, a higher noise floor, and a loss of soundstage width, height and depth. In my system the gain in musicality does offset the additional expense of balanced cables, but your mileage may vary.

 

[MiTT]

Charliemike, the answer to your question depends on your system. Some equipment is voiced to be run balanced (and is designed with truly differential circuits) while others include XLR inputs/ouputs but not truly differential circuits. Examples in my system include the ARC Ref 3, Rowland 8T, Sonic Frontiers SFD2 DAC, and Ayre C5xe all designed to be run balanced with fully differential circuit design. When I hook these components up single ended with RCA interconnects I hear a more forward soundstage, a loss of openness, a higher noise floor, and a loss of soundstage width, height and depth. In my system the gain in musicality does offset the additional expense of balanced cables, but your mileage may vary.

Yep, pretty much the same thing I said. Balanced connections on single ended circuits are little more than window dressing. Before investing in a boatload of balanced cables I'd be sure to check if they are really going to be serving differential circuits.

 

[Robin]

Now I am Looking at Running ~ Unbalanced Direct...

"Just when I think I'm out.., they bring me back in." Al Pacino might have been quite correct in the Godfather Part III, when he said that but as it pertains to balanced vs unbalanced, currently, I am looking at running unbalanced (temporally) from a source directly to a tubed amp. I am told it will work.

As I have been researching this further, I have found that to reduce common-mode voltage / current shield resistance in unbalance cable, the unbalanced cable should meet several requirements:

1). Be short run .5 meter low resistance cables.
2). Be shielded with copper instead of aluminum foil shielding.
3). Both source and amp. housings should be connected together by a heavy gage copper ground wire.
4). Both source and amp should be connected to the same power circuit or power strip or power conditioner.

Those are the facts so far. Is their anything else I am forgeting?

 

[JonFo]

Well, here's a reason why one wants to use as much balanced interconnects as possible:

Not saying whose system this is, but I do know it makes a huge difference to use balanced between dozens of components spanning two seven foot tall racks

The point someone made about reduced hum and EMF interference is quite real…

 

[benleeys]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that balanced outputs are 3-6 dBs higher than RCAs. So you do not have to turn up your preamp volume as much. I suppose that adds to the lower noise floor.

My 2cents worth.

 

[amey01]

In theory, balanced is better for all the reasons given. But it does depend on the implementation - quite often you will find that the SE inputs provide better results because there is no phase inversion or messing with the signal. Also, some components convert balanced to SE anyway.

So, I wouldn't buy something because of balanced or not, however if I happened to have balanced inputs /outputs I would give them a try and see if they yielded better results. Seem fair?

 

[timm]

Hi all - I have a sunfire pre and a sunfire amp.... It has balanced connections - but I do not believe it is fully balanced (i.e. different circuits per Mitt) .. Has anyone heard a sunfire combo with both rca & balanced connections?