Im looking at a kps 20il or kps 25s in the used market, any one have any experiance with them , I am happy with my Theta Miles but , the Krell seems to have good reviews and are ballanced units , the difference will have to be substantial to make me switch as the Theta is a smooth player
any body have any experianc with Krell digital
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chris03053
Well-known member
Krell
I did check on the kps 25sc, what a machine. It sounded great with the balance outputs plus it had HDCD if that interests you. I was very close of getting it but i went with the Esoteric UX-1 witch had everthing i wanted plus more. Did you check on the Theta Compli? Good luck with your search.
I did check on the kps 25sc, what a machine. It sounded great with the balance outputs plus it had HDCD if that interests you. I was very close of getting it but i went with the Esoteric UX-1 witch had everthing i wanted plus more. Did you check on the Theta Compli? Good luck with your search.
kwr
Well-known member
We used to run KPS20i/l into KSA 150 into our Monoliths. This has been replaced with an all Plinius setup. We still have the player and amp and find them both grainy compared to our current setup. The KPS 20i/l was bleeding edge stuff in 1996 and we felt considerably better than the Wadia of the day and far better than the Meridian 208 we were utilising. Bass a strong point which helped balance up the Quad ESL 63 that we had at the time. Still regret selling the Quads.
It is still a good player and only suffers with comparison to the better players of today. I think that cd playback has progressed in leaps and bounds in the last few years and it has been finally shown up. It is not upgradeable and I suspect the transport may not be readily available. I would look elsewhere second hand unless you can pick it up for a song.
I don't have a reasonable opinion about the 25c
Kevin
It is still a good player and only suffers with comparison to the better players of today. I think that cd playback has progressed in leaps and bounds in the last few years and it has been finally shown up. It is not upgradeable and I suspect the transport may not be readily available. I would look elsewhere second hand unless you can pick it up for a song.
I don't have a reasonable opinion about the 25c
Kevin
DTB300
Well-known member
Cap....C.A.P said:
Just curious...why not add a sub along with low end room equalization? Then you will get all the low end you need and it will be properly setup for your room? It may be the same cost or less than a Krell product. Don't get me wrong here...it is your choice on what to change to get to your resolution. Like I said, just curious...
I have seen the 20i/L on Audiogon for $3500 or so....
Dan
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DTB300 said:
I am working on a sub , intergrating it in the system , but running it in the rca out on the Theta miles I dont get full signal (It seems any ways) as I am using the ballanced for the amp, I was either looking into a pre amp or a Krell cd unit with one built in with seperate anolog outs from the mains to run the sub , ................... you know the game .......the grass is always greener with a new component
kwr
Well-known member
The KPS20i/l can only be used with one set of outputs at once (balanced or rca). It is a single source one box solution. You would need a Y splitter at the output to run your sub as well.
I would not recommend buying this player. They are old, not upgradeable and Krell support for older products is poor. They are not Martin Logan. For example I needed a new softstart for the KSA 150 two years ago. It was difficult to get information from Krell and ultimately it required a special build at Krell. Four months and $520 Australian later it was fitted. I am presently getting a LED replaced on the KPS. Krell wanted to ship a new board at a cost of approx. $300. The problem with getting it sorted is the LED is a type that was old when the player was made and we are trying to find legacy stock that does not involve buying a hundred of the things. The clamp is expensive to replace.
The KPS is the only bit of equipment that in retrospect we should not have purchased. We believed in source first at that stage (currently our experience is that the speaker/room interface is the most important "component") and it was stunningly better than most other cdps at the time. Meridian produced the 508 shortly afterwards at 1/3 the price and virtually as good soundwise.
I would not be trying to improve bass with a cdp, unless the Theta is light in this area. I see people forever trying to beat physics. Good deep bass requires control from the amplifier, a high quality driver, a large surface area moved and careful positioning in the room. Usually it is not cheap.
Can I make an out of field suggestion. There are often Audio Aero Capitole cdps second hand at the same price level as the KPS 20i/l. I think it is as much of a benchmark as the KPS was in its day. It is a far more organic sound than than the KPS, has superior tonal balance, is easily modded if neccesary, has a transport that can be replaced and adds a tubed output stage to your signal path. It remains a one box solution. The Plinius CD101/M8 preamp is better again but the price is shifting up rapidly. The Plinius CD101 is to my mind a great example of how much better cd playback has become in the last few years.
Kevin
I would not recommend buying this player. They are old, not upgradeable and Krell support for older products is poor. They are not Martin Logan. For example I needed a new softstart for the KSA 150 two years ago. It was difficult to get information from Krell and ultimately it required a special build at Krell. Four months and $520 Australian later it was fitted. I am presently getting a LED replaced on the KPS. Krell wanted to ship a new board at a cost of approx. $300. The problem with getting it sorted is the LED is a type that was old when the player was made and we are trying to find legacy stock that does not involve buying a hundred of the things. The clamp is expensive to replace.
The KPS is the only bit of equipment that in retrospect we should not have purchased. We believed in source first at that stage (currently our experience is that the speaker/room interface is the most important "component") and it was stunningly better than most other cdps at the time. Meridian produced the 508 shortly afterwards at 1/3 the price and virtually as good soundwise.
I would not be trying to improve bass with a cdp, unless the Theta is light in this area. I see people forever trying to beat physics. Good deep bass requires control from the amplifier, a high quality driver, a large surface area moved and careful positioning in the room. Usually it is not cheap.
Can I make an out of field suggestion. There are often Audio Aero Capitole cdps second hand at the same price level as the KPS 20i/l. I think it is as much of a benchmark as the KPS was in its day. It is a far more organic sound than than the KPS, has superior tonal balance, is easily modded if neccesary, has a transport that can be replaced and adds a tubed output stage to your signal path. It remains a one box solution. The Plinius CD101/M8 preamp is better again but the price is shifting up rapidly. The Plinius CD101 is to my mind a great example of how much better cd playback has become in the last few years.
Kevin
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great feedback so far on the kps 20il ,as I did not know about the discontinued parts , especially the laser mechinism or any other for that matter ........ .......looks like I am not in the market for that unit .......... what about the kps25s or sc series , these are newer units and must be serviceable,
.......looks like I am not in the market for that unit .......... what about the kps25s or sc series , these are newer units and must be serviceable, kwr
Well-known member
C.A.P said:great feedback so far on the kps 20il ,as I did not know about the discontinued parts , especially the laser mechinism or any other for that matter ........
This is not just Krell. Many players transports are no longer produced and you are reliant on legacy stock. There are now a significant number of players that use cd rom drives as they can't source a stable supply of a transport. I suspect the most likely bit to fail in a cdp is the transport and it is potentially the trickiest bit to replace.
Do you have to/really want to buy a Krell? They have a deserved reputation and you pay the dollar for it. There is quite a bit of good competition but if you like the house sound it may be the way to go.
Kevin
not necessarly sold on the sound as much as the build and simplicity of a one package unit , I dont run vynal and like the ease of one unit that takes up less space and less cables to go through and one less component to fog the signal up , although they are some great sounding units from what I have listened to , I am open for sugestions, as I did talk to a company called GREAT NORTHERN SOUND that does heavy moding to cdp, and he said they can make my Theta sing like Cole Porter LOL I am all ears to sugestions
LOL I am all ears to sugestions
C.A.P said:
Take a listen to one of the later Cary 303 or 306 series CD Players. Especially the 306 or even better the newer 303/300 Cary. They have the option of providing volume control via thier remote and can be connected directly to an amp. They also do very well in the bass and soundstage department.
The build quality is very good too but not quite the tank-like construction of the Krell, Electrocompaniet or Classe but it comes close. I had a 303/200 for about a year until I updgraded to an Electrocompaniet EMC-1 UP with the matching Preamp. I prefer the Electro setup but it came at a significantly higher price than the Cary.
Another feature of the later Cary CD players is they have an AES/EBU or RCA digital input and therfore can be used as a DAC from another source.
Cary CD players can be found at a very resonable price on Audiogon and are an excellent value. I've never had the opportunity to hear a Wadia so I can't comment on those. I would certainly consider a Wadia based on what I've read about them. I do know most Wadias also have the volume control feature but are typically in a higher price category
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