Analog Upgrades..... Joey and Dave !!

[twich54]

Dave, I recently saw a "demo" SDS offered from one of the mail order houses(I can't remember if it was music direct, elusive disc, toddthe vinyljunkie or acoustic sounds) with full warranty for 750 with free shipping. As an aside I tried a PS rgenerator in my system and my ARC preamp did not like it at all. It was the smaller one and I think the preamp was current starved or something-it was a match made in hell and partly the reason I ended up with a Hydra 8.

Thanks for the 'heads up' Tony, I'll have to investigate.

I think the PS unit youre refering to is the PS300, I've read two reviews and one of the chief complaints was it's inability to handle wattages of over 200 TOTAL. Not to mention it ran rather warm/hot.

 

[twich54]

Yes, ideally I would like have both a P600 and a SDS but the price would then go through the roof.

YogiBear, I suspect if one could luck into a nice deal for both used totaling say $1500 that would be a good way to go. Considering the retail of the PS-600, $2195, that dosen't say much for it's resale ??

 

[yogibear]

It seems that older PS Audio gears in general get discounted quite a bit on the used market. I've had my P600 for 7-8 years now with now problems. I have heard about reliability issues with the P300. I think when they first came out they sold for $1995. I have it in my audio system but about a year ago I plugged my tv into it. Wow, talk about improvement in detail. When watching a scene from Band of Brothers with the tv plugged directly into the wall outlet the forest background appears blurred. When I plugged it into the P600 I was able to see all the detail. One of these days I might integrate my audio and video system, but for now they're in different rooms. The P600 stays in the audio system because I value music over video.

 

[Joey_V]

All this talk about power regeneration is going to push me to start dreaming of the Premier..... .

 

[raygunn]

SDS vs. Powerplant = Apples and Oranges (long-winded)...

YogiBear, while this idea does have merit, it does add significantly to the price. The other factor is the SDS unit while soley used for the TT does provide platter speed switching from 33 to 45 as an added convienence. Again with both units performing a 'regeneration' process in order to handle all my various components I would have to go to the P600.

The magic that the SDS performs on the VPI drive systems is not solely due to power re-generation. In fact, I would say that the power re-generation is a minor contributor to the apparent decrease in the VPI's noise floor.

Let me explain...

The VPI motors are AC Synchronous. In other words, they lock on to the AC line frequency of 60hz to achieve running speed.

The SDS does the following:

• Uses a "start-up" sequence for motor start-up that feeds the motor the full 110volts @ 60hz.
• After start-up is achieved, the TNT SAMA (300 RPM motor) runs at correct speed at the much lower voltage of 72 volts @ 53Hz. The SDS's computer constantly re-calculates the voltage/frequency pairing as you adjust the speed control using a strobe.
• The SDS stores these final settings for two operating modes, 33 RPM and 45 RPM.

AC synchronous motors have much less vibration and noise when run at these low voltages. This is why the SDS makes such a huge audible difference. It isn't that it just delivers re-generated power.
It also allows the motor to run at the lowest noise level possible.

Please note that the SDS is a universal product and is configurable to accomodate most any turntable that uses an AC Synchronous motor.

(Here's a few of useful DIY hints):

1. Any competent machine shop can make a delrin (known for being very quiet) pulley of any size or diameter so that you can maximize the low-voltage effect of the SDS through altering the diameter of the pulley to optimize to a particular range of operation when not using a VPI turntable.
2. Any capacitors in line with the motor are no longer needed when the SDS is used for start-up and speed controller. This equates to lower noise.
3. The SDS can also be made to perform the same effect on the motor drives of CD players and it is stated as such in the manual.

Rock on! :rocker:

Cheers,
Ray

 

[raygunn]

Um... remember our chat??

Thanks for the input guys!
.. especially Tim, the harbringer of all that is spendy! And Dave... and Ray... ah what the hell... everyone of you guys are just plain evil one way or another...

Joey

I offered some very reasonable not-so-spendy alternatives, but as I recall you seemed a bit put off by vintage units.

I still think that there are vintage turntables that deliver spectacular performance at a fraction of the prices of current models.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[twich54]

Ray, Interesting info on the SDS, thanks ! that further enhances it's desirability.

 

[tonyc]

So, when are you going to come to my house and tweak my front end Ray?

 

[raygunn]

You're welcome! More Info...

Ray, Interesting info on the SDS, thanks ! that further enhances it's desirability.

The truth is that the SDS is misunderstood by many dealers and usually misrepresented as simply a power generator.

The VPI site has a downloadable manual more calibrating the SDS.
It pretty much gives all the info you need for configuring it to do its magic on virtually any AC synchronous motor system.

The link: http://www.vpiindustries.com/manuals.htm

The SDS calibration Manual is what you'll be looking to read.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[raygunn]

Is that an Invite???

So, when are you going to come to my house and tweak my front end Ray?

Actually, I would be more than happy to do so once I am finished with Project "Oye". :music:

Cheers,
Ray

 

[Huey]

Actually, I would be more than happy to do so once I am finished with Project "Oye". :music:

Cheers,
Ray

So enlighten us.....What are you going to do to his front end exactly ???

 

[raygunn]

I've never heard or seen TonyC's turntable, but I'm pretty good at tweaking them to get the most performance possible out of them.

Each situation is different. There's no telling what I would do with it until I see/hear it.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[twich54]

Hagerman Technology ??

Anybody aware of this firm, Hagerman technology ??? Fellows over on the "Asylum" think quite highly of them. They supposedly make very good phono preamps, both assembled and in kit form.

 

[aliveatfive]

Anybody aware of this firm, Hagerman technology ??? Fellows over on the "Asylum" think quite highly of them. They supposedly make very good phono preamps, both assembled and in kit form.

I believe there's a model called "The Trumpet" that got a class B rating from S'phile, once upon a time. Their stuff is supposed to be good and fairly inexpensive. I've been on their website and some of their kits look like they might require fairly advanced DIY skills.

 

[MiTT]

Anybody aware of this firm, Hagerman technology ??? Fellows over on the "Asylum" think quite highly of them. They supposedly make very good phono preamps, both assembled and in kit form.

Dave, I have heard them (at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest). Good sounding stuff, nothing memorable about their sound, but maybe that means they're very neutral. I think their phono stage is called the "Trumpet". Not much to look at though...

EDIT - just saw aliveatfive's post, I'd say between the two of us we agree that the name is the Trumpet

 

[raygunn]

About the "Vinyl Asylum"...

Anybody aware of this firm, Hagerman technology ??? Fellows over on the "Asylum" think quite highly of them. They supposedly make very good phono preamps, both assembled and in kit form.

Indeed, there is a group of guys on the VA that speak highly of the Hagerman. However, I need to alert you that you need to put their comments into the proper context.

Here in the ML Club, since we are 'Stat users, we tend to already have what many at the VA would consider very expensive High-End Systems.

In the VA, since it focuses on Vinyl only, the range of people in that group run the total spectrum. So, you need to put their comments into proper perspective by looking at their system profile.

What I'm trying to say is that a glowing review of a Hagerman Trumpet written by someone who has had nothing but mid fi receivers from the 1970's may have less relevance to your needs than a glowing (or not-so-glowing) review written by someone who has a system similar in stature to yours for instance ...:band:

Cheers,
Ray

 

[Joey_V]

Been reeeeal busy lately guys..... sorry I have not been around too much...

Dave.. appreciate you calling me yesterday night, you caught me when I was working out so I was not able to pick up at that moment. Will definitely look forward to hooking up sometime soon to talk turkey, er, analog.

Been looking at VPI, but nothing solid yet... been keeping an eye on audiogon but work has been killer the past 6 days. Good thing though, I have 5 days straight off now so I can breathe easy.

Got some school stuff to take care of and then I'm back into the audio game... lapsed out of audio for a little bit there....

Joey

 

[jfm]

Heads up... my local dealer says VPI increasing its prices on August 10.

 

[Joey_V]

Heads up... my local dealer says VPI increasing its prices on August 10.

Uh oh........

 

[twich54]

Hello Joey..........VPI Scout just got posted on the "Gon", $1200 OBO

It's Calling You !!!!!!!!