8 years of frustration

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James, could you explain what it is you like about the Klipsch's compared to the Martin Logans? Before I bought the SL3's, I had a set of Klipsch's and always was a fan of horn speakers. If I didn't own Logans, I would probably own a set Khorns, Cornwalls or something similar. Tough to beat the dynamics those speakers present!

Rich

It's not that I liked the La Scalas more, it's just that the AE3 with SN7 tubes worked better with them. The horns can't be beat for musical impact, and the ALK crossover upgrade made a huge improvement. But at the end of the day they just never had that 'stat magic.

James
 
I am looking for a sound that most Martin Logan owners would agree on is one that is very musical, non-fatiguing with decent micro and macro dynamic capability. To this day, I can remember how the CLS sounded. I have always wanted that sound with the ability to rock on occasion.
A question that has not been asked is whether you actually listen to the CLS pumping out rock-n-roll the way you'd like. IMHO, rock-n-roll is NOT one of Martin-Logan's forte. Given the right electronics, you could reduce the gap but in the end, it's still a compromise, tailored more for your inclination just like anything else in audio. I'd first try to swap out the tubes on the AE-3 pre. The rationale being that the AE3, being of very simple design, will benefit greatly with good tubes. If that still does not get closer to "rock-n-roll", then the evidence points to the Carver amplifier being too dull (sluggish) trying to provide the "tubey" sound. I'd try a good amplifier like a used Bryston or Aragon 8008BB to have better control of the woofers for rock-n-roll. These are musical amplifiers and will mate well with the AE3. The ModWright Pioneer is a good piece, and the AE3 is a sleeper until the right tubes come along. Good luck on your journey.

Spike
 
kach22i said:
Don't forget the heavy wool blanket or quilt to drape over the face and sides of the TV. You need to lessen the reflective surfaces between the speakers but not behind the speakers. Also experiment with different size/density pillows. I use a thin seat back pillow for vinyl, and a big fluffy pillow for CD listening (above the TV).

hi,

i tried a big duvet over the front of the TV and the overall sound got very dull - which you also warned about happening. i also tried more pillows and different pillows and so on. i'm pretty happy with the end result.

my big fear is that when i build the permanent solution, it won't have the same acoustic effect as the three pillows. might be the same, might be better, might be worse.

sigh.
 
Maybe obvious, but worth mentioning

Hi there,

Perhaps stating the obvious, but how good are the panels in the SL3s? Are they dusty and in need of a vacuuming, or worse have they been 'tarred' by cigarette smoke? Any of these will slow the panels down, and give a significant reduction in performance. Also how old are they? It's possible that the panels may be losing tension and need some sort of treatment (I think there's a description of this elsewhere in the forum).

Cheers,

David
 
zaphod said:
hi,

i tried a big duvet over the front of the TV and the overall sound got very dull - which you also warned about happening. i also tried more pillows and different pillows and so on. i'm pretty happy with the end result.

my big fear is that when i build the permanent solution, it won't have the same acoustic effect as the three pillows. might be the same, might be better, might be worse.

sigh.

Hola chicos!...I'm just going to say a little advice. When I have a problem that I can't solve, what I do is start all over again, from disconnecting the whole system and re-connecting it back again (sometimes there are faulty contacts that makes the system to sound like dead), like without moving my feet with the rythm of the music. Also I will take all the room acoustics and start to listen again what I should try to do, and do the corners first. Sometimes over-damping the room makes it like what you have, a dead room...also I think that your system has good components and good cables...try to get a harmonic recovery system (SCE) if you play only digital. Trust your ears and make the changes little by little. Your SL3s are capable to produce a great sound and you should be enjoying the sound as we do, because there is no other brand of speakers that could give us what MLs does. Yes, there are good sounding speakers, but if you start to check the bennefits that you get from ML, always will be the winner. If not, why are we so crazy about them?...again, trust your ears! and happy listening!
Regards from Costa Rica!
Roberto.
 
DavidG said:
Hi there,

Perhaps stating the obvious, but how good are the panels in the SL3s? Are they dusty and in need of a vacuuming, or worse have they been 'tarred' by cigarette smoke? Any of these will slow the panels down, and give a significant reduction in performance. Also how old are they? It's possible that the panels may be losing tension and need some sort of treatment (I think there's a description of this elsewhere in the forum).

Cheers,

David


David,

The panels are in very good condition, in fact I pulled the panels and did a through washing in the shower as stated in previous posts about 3 weeks ago. They were quite dirty despite vacuuming the panels on a fairly regular basis over the last 8 years (purchased in '97). Smoke was/is not an issue as I do not light up. The sound did open up quite a bit so it was definately worth the effort. By the way, the panels look like new again :)
 
Unbalanced blues in a plug and play world

Here’s my experience with the ML blues. I became dissatisfied with certain aspects of the sound from my Quest z’s. So....
1. Cleaned the panels after talking to Jim Power. Big improvement.
2. I upgraded tube power amp. Big improvement.
3. Put amp on Mapleshade 4" maple amp stand with triplepoints, etc. Bass tightened up, smoother highs. Surprise, the discontinuity between the woofer and panels cleared up. The magic started again. Everything was better, lp’s and cd’s.
Up grade fever strikes. I just don’t have the medicine ($$$) handy to treat it. So, I decided to try to treat it in other ways, on the cheap, relatively speaking.
I wondered about power cords. I read lots of forums. Finally I decided on Signal cable because of positive comments, cost and money back trial.
4. Bought the Magic Power Cord from Signal. Again, immediately apparent difference. More woofer discontinuity reduced, greater coherence, and this was before the break in was complete.
5. So, impressed with Signal Cable, I talked to the owner, Frank, and ended up buying the digital power cable and a number of his video cables. He told me that the digital cable wouldn’t make the difference the power cable to the amp did, and he was right — but it still helped, a bit more coherence and resolution. The video cables absolutely made a clear difference with video quality, but I’m not really a videophile.
6. Won a new tube preamp auction at Audiogon. I won’t mention the name because I’m still trying to decide, but I liked everything about it but the bass — way too “tubey” and the woofer discontinuity was back. More break in? Not sure.
7. Decided to try some new cables thru Audiogon auction. I had upgraded the cable between the phono step up and preamp about 6 months before, and did find an improvement — subtle, but there. Still, there are so many cable manufacturers it’s bewildering, and the brand of cable I used from the step-up was pricey. The prices on many high end cables — ouch! I decided to look into about ten at auction and put in a bid for a newly marketed cable, getting it at a decent pricefrom the manufacturer. Out of the box it was awful, except for the bass. I broke it in, a process that continues after about a week, and I can say that I have never heard bass with this much articulation and power from my Quest Z’s. The woofer discontinuity is again gone. The high end is extended without being hot. Cymbals, always disappointing on most recordings, sound like metal with different types sounding distinctly different. There is longer decay than I have previously heard on my system or any other. There are a few areas that I’m still debating, but this is an incredible difference. I also want to try this cable between the CD and pre but want to make sure it is broken in first.
8. Another Audiogon cable auction win is in the mail.
The point of all of this is that it seems as if the stuff that has made the greatest difference has been the things that we might not think would. Getting the panels clean was free. The amp stand is especially important for tube amps (and probably pre's), even on slab floors, quite contrary to what I would have thought. The power cord and cables wrung out stuff I never could have anticipated.
Except for turntables, most of us, I suspect, think of this stuff as plug and play. My experience now tells me it is not. That these things are (or were) all on 30 day approval and that only one has a re-stocking fee, puts them within easy reach and available for home audition, make it especially palatable.
On the Klipsch, I’ve heard the ease and speed with which they go from soft to loud, and it is always impressive, but particularly so with uncompressed, i.e., usually not rock, recordings. That they are very efficient and most often used with lots more power than they need only heightens this effect. Male or female voices, though, sound honky to me. If ML’s don’t work with rock, why does Dave Matthews use Quest Z’s in the studio?
Power and vibration control may be all you need. Why did I ever sell my CLS 2 Z’s?
Rouvin
 
Rouvin said:
Here’s my experience..................The amp stand is especially important for tube amps
That was a lot of writting Rouvin, I enjoyed reading it.

What little tuning attempts I've tried to my heavy tube amp's support has not been encouraging. I've gotten some sound differences but in the wrong direction. I can say my tube amp does not like rubbery things under it. Sounds like you have gotten good results with solid/thick maple and sturdy spikes. This gives me something to think about.
:)
 
kach22i said:
That was a lot of writting Rouvin, I enjoyed reading it.

What little tuning attempts I've tried to my heavy tube amp's support has not been encouraging. I've gotten some sound differences but in the wrong direction. I can say my tube amp does not like rubbery things under it. Sounds like you have gotten good results with solid/thick maple and sturdy spikes. This gives me something to think about.
:)

Kach22i
I use Herbie's Tenderfoot and a Gabon ebony ball under my amp it did improve the sound. The bass was a bit more defined and is isolated from the vibration of the oak shelf it sits on. You can check out his stuff at http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net

Just another 2 cents worth.

Jeff
 

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