Why so many used ML electrostats listed for sale and less than a year old?

[Robert D]

Anyone have a theory as to why I see a good number of listing like this?

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb0f00-martin-logan-renaissance-esl-15a-dark-cherry-full-range

Speakers only 8 months old or less up for sale. Is it because once they got them into the house, the owner wasn't able to get the sound they were searching for? Perhaps their amplification wasn't a good match? Maybe the room is a big factor, guess they gave up and decided to bail?
Maybe it's a money factor, where some life event came up and they need the cash. I think we had one case on here where the owner's wife did NOT like the way they looked. Selling them used like this results in the owner loosing about $10k on the speakers.
I know if I got ahold of these 15a speakers, they'd have to bury them with me!

 

[Jazzman53]

I can only think of a couple of possibilities...

1. DIVORCE

2. The guy's so loaded (10k = chump change) he can buy and sell gear on a whim.

 

[Robert D]

I can only think of a couple of possibilities...

1. DIVORCE

2. The guy's so loaded (10k = chump change) he can buy and sell gear on a whim.

Two possibilities for sure. I also thought of another one. This one is unfortunate, the owner died. That's how I got my Prodigy speakers, but they were old already.
I figure if I died, my wife would probably sell off all of my audio gear and the 911 turbo.

 

[JonFo]

I figure if I died, my wife would probably sell off all of my audio gear and the 911 turbo.

Mine just told me that yesterday. First, she'd come here and post using my handle, informing everyone and telling you all that she is open to offers on the gear.

 

[JonFo]

Is it because once they got them into the house, the owner wasn't able to get the sound they were searching for? Perhaps their amplification wasn't a good match? Maybe the room is a big factor, guess they gave up and decided to bail?

From hearing people post about their new ESL's here and over at AVSForum, they often don't have an appropriate room for them.
So A) they don't sound as good as the demo room, and B) for the money, monopole dynamic speakers will perform vastly better in that room. Most people dropping $20K on speakers probably already had nice dynamic speakers in that same room.

The room is one of the most important components of an audio system, and some might say the most important. Size and acoustical properties are relevant to all types of speakers, but two types are particularly sensitive: Omnidirectional (MBL, Muraudio PX) followed closely by dipole line arrays (ESL or not).

I've found it challenging enough to convince owners of ML ESLs of the importance of the room's acoustic properties, particularly regarding reflection management. I'm not surprised a newbie to the ESL world would not understand just how sensitive they are to the room. Sales guys want to make the sale, so they gloss over the challenges involved.

All of which is a common root cause for re-sales.

I really wish ML would implement the Monoray design, as it addresses many of the above issues while still allowing customers to enjoy the awesomeness of ESL transducers.

 

[sgordon10]

One can always respond to the ad with "Why are you selling your speakers" while watching the needle on the lie detector machine, when you see the response.

 

[Brad225]

Maybe they were sorry they didn't purchase a pair of CLXs new when they could have and are now going for a used pair.

 

[Robert D]

Mine just told me that yesterday. First, she'd come here and post using my handle, informing everyone and telling you all that she is open to offers on the gear.

Yep
Our wives could care less about our audio systems and sports cars. I even asked both of my daughters if they'd like any of it and neither was too interested. All they see are $$$.

 

[Russr]

Yep
Our wives could care less about our audio systems and sports cars. I even asked both of my daughters if they'd like any of it and neither was too interested. All they see are $$$.

Uhm... don't take this the wrong way, but I'll call you "Dad"...

 

[Brad225]

Russr, Robert only has daughters. You may need some alterations to fall into that category.

 

[Russr]

Russr, Robert only has daughters. You may need some alterations to fall into that category.

Hmmm.... well, then again, I AM young (at heart), single (dad)... all I need is a ton of plastic surgery & a few years at the gym and there MIGHT be other ways to get my mitts on his system....

Meantime, Robert, look after yourself and plan on hanging around for a long time for your kids/grandkids! ... and to enjoy your system!

Potential-future-son-in-law/

 

[twich54]

I agree with Jonathan as well, regardless, with respect to the ad copy on the 15a's for sale........... what a lousy position/set-up !

 

[Heyfey]

Couldn't agree more. and look at this setup: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb5ddj-martin-logan-esl-expression-13a-full-range

Given how often I question my own sanity I'm loathe to weigh in on anyone else's, but..

As Dr. Phil might say, "What were you thinking?"

 

[perryz]

From hearing people post about their new ESL's here and over at AVSForum, they often don't have an appropriate room for them.
So A) they don't sound as good as the demo room, and B) for the money, monopole dynamic speakers will perform vastly better in that room. Most people dropping $20K on speakers probably already had nice dynamic speakers in that same room.

The room is one of the most important components of an audio system, and some might say the most important. Size and acoustical properties are relevant to all types of speakers, but two types are particularly sensitive: Omnidirectional (MBL, Muraudio PX) followed closely by diploe line arrays (ESL or not).

I've found it challenging enough to convince owners of ML ESLs of the importance of the room's acoustic properties, particularly regarding reflection management. I'm not surprised a newbie to the ESL world would not understand just how sensitive they are to the room. Sales guys want to make the sale, so they gloss over the challenges involved.

All of which is a common root cause for re-sales.

I really wish ML would implement the Monoray design, as it addresses many of the above issues, while still allowing customers to enjoy the awesomeness of ESL transducers.

From hearing people post about their new ESL's here and over at AVSForum, they often don't have an appropriate room for them.
So A) they don't sound as good as the demo room, and B) for the money, monopole dynamic speakers will perform vastly better in that room. Most people dropping $20K on speakers probably already had nice dynamic speakers in that same room.

The room is one of the most important components of an audio system, and some might say the most important. Size and acoustical properties are relevant to all types of speakers, but two types are particularly sensitive: Omnidirectional (MBL, Muraudio PX) followed closely by diploe line arrays (ESL or not).

I've found it challenging enough to convince owners of ML ESLs of the importance of the room's acoustic properties, particularly regarding reflection management. I'm not surprised a newbie to the ESL world would not understand just how sensitive they are to the room. Sales guys want to make the sale, so they gloss over the challenges involved.

All of which is a common root cause for re-sales.

I really wish ML would implement the Monoray design, as it addresses many of the above issues, while still allowing customers to enjoy the awesomeness of ESL transducers.

Agreed. It also means that with dipoles small adjustments can make huge improvements Ie distance from front wall, amount of toe in and tilting the speaker as well as arc.
It took me several months to get my 13as sounding spectacular. If you just plonk em and listen u will not get them to sound any where near what they are capable of

 

[cabinum]

Maybe they were sorry they didn't purchase a pair of CLXs new when they could have and are now going for a used pair.

After hearing yours, how could you not? Still loving the CLS's.

 

[Brad225]

I'm happy to hear they are still going strong for you.

 

[Ztatic]

From hearing people post about their new ESL's here and over at AVSForum, they often don't have an appropriate room for them.
So A) they don't sound as good as the demo room, and B) for the money, monopole dynamic speakers will perform vastly better in that room. Most people dropping $20K on speakers probably already had nice dynamic speakers in that same room.

The room is one of the most important components of an audio system, and some might say the most important. Size and acoustical properties are relevant to all types of speakers, but two types are particularly sensitive: Omnidirectional (MBL, Muraudio PX) followed closely by dipole line arrays (ESL or not).

I've found it challenging enough to convince owners of ML ESLs of the importance of the room's acoustic properties, particularly regarding reflection management. I'm not surprised a newbie to the ESL world would not understand just how sensitive they are to the room. Sales guys want to make the sale, so they gloss over the challenges involved.

All of which is a common root cause for re-sales.

I really wish ML would implement the Monoray design, as it addresses many of the above issues while still allowing customers to enjoy the awesomeness of ESL transducers.

Well, there is such thing as a monopole electrostatic, for those who wish to minimize the influence of the room.

 

[Robert D]

Well, there is such thing as a monopole electrostatic, for those who wish to minimize the influence of the room.

JonFo mentioned your speakers either in this thread or another. Id love to hear them. Im down in Cincinnati and could come to Columbus to hear your speakers. Do you have a showroom there?

Right now I am using some Martin Logan Prodigy speakers.

 

[Ztatic]

FWIW, I think the Prodigy is going to be hard to beat, and I'd love to hear what you think.

I play speakers for visitors in my office. It's a far from optimal listening environment that well demonstrates immunity to room particulars. Just PM me for my phone number and we can set up a time.

 

[Robert D]

FWIW, I think the Prodigy is going to be hard to beat, and I'd love to hear what you think.

I play speakers for visitors in my office. It's a far from optimal listening environment that well demonstrates immunity to room particulars. Just PM me for my phone number and we can set up a time.

Thanks. I may look into that sometime. It's also nice to hear that you have a high opinion of the Prodigy speakers.