VPI Traveler. Am I going nuts?

[MrBT]

Is it what I see and what you see on the photo normal???? Since a couple of months I thought I see it but I thought it was some kind of visual artifact. Today I finally decided to take close look and WTF???
Maybe I am uneducated in this topic but I would bet my life that the plate(or whatever you call it) should be perfectly flat to assure all proper conditions of TT setup.
No, it is not lens distortion and TT didn't get flooded and dried up . Although in NJ we have humid summer and dry winter. God!!!! VPI is based in NJ!!!

any opinions appreciated....

P.S. I already went through problem of tonearm falling out off the pivots and now this!!!

 

[slowGEEZR]

That plinth is definitely bowed. Also, it looks like the right foot is crooked, but it may just not be screwed in enough. Is the plinth still bowed when the platter is on, or is the platter already on?

 

[FoxMulder]

It looks bowed to me too. The plinth should be perfectly flat to help ensure a level table. I'd send that picture to VPI. I was a VPI dealer for many years and I'm sure Mat and Harry will take care of you. Let us know what happens.

 

[Victor]

Although I've never owned a VPI they are a well established, reputable company and your situation could well be of the one-off variety?
Also a lot of things can happen to your gear in transit - the packaging can be stressed under pressure, so I'd be inclined to give the company the benefit of the doubt.

I'm assuming that beneath the veneer is an MDF core(???) Properly sealed, that will be flat and dimensionally stable for decades but you're quite right, good geometry, precise orthogonality and parallelism are essential. You have a right to expect your turntable platform to be "square".
I've been where you are and hopefully, once they've sorted it, you can look forward to a long and happy relationship with the product.

From a convenience point of view , it's preferred to discover these hidden surprises before you set up your T/T and cartridge.
As you've "gone to press" with this, VPI will/should be falling over themselves to ensure that you are one happy customer.
All the best,

 

[twich54]

not right, as others have said call VPI, I'm sure they will correct it for you

 

[Gordon Gray]

I'm not a TT type but am very attentive to vibration induced distortions.

Those threaded feet, per the picture, look pretty non-rigid (read vibration prone) to me.

Can't be a good thing for stability and sonics.

Just a thought.

GG

PS: I assume you are using the feet to level the table. Consider installing some washers (or a rubber insert of the correct height) to fill in the gap between the top of the cone and the bottom of the threaded insert. End desired result being that the cones, when threaded into the base of the table, are secure and "tight". Cheap and should substantially improve stability / performance.

May also want to consider installing a vibration attenuation product (many options at various price points) between the cone tips and your shelf.

 

[Victor]

Someone should have corrected me as the Traveler is more sophisticated than at first glance.
VPI use a Delrin/Aluminium sandwich so it's unlikely to be naturally prone to warping, although on its own, even 2cm thick delrin will warp under duress as I've seen armboards do this.
The VPI chassis will be a lot stronger than the armboards I just mentioned. Given those ingredients, the puzzle just gets more puzzling.

 

[Victor]

I'm not a TT type but am very attentive to vibration induced distortions.

Those threaded feet, per the picture, look pretty non-rigid (read vibration prone) to me.

Can't be a good thing for stability and sonics.

Just a thought.

GG

PS: I assume you are using the feet to level the table. Consider installing some washers (or a rubber insert of the correct height) to fill in the gap between the top of the cone and the bottom of the threaded insert. End desired result being that the cones, when threaded into the base of the table, are secure and "tight". Cheap and should substantially improve stability / performance.

May also want to consider installing a vibration attenuation product (many options at various price points) between the cone tips and your shelf.

Hmmmm....I wouldn't. The dual purpose of the cones is not only isolation (or to be more precise, reduced coupling to the platform below) but to level the table. If there are bits of tight rubber causing interference you are going to have a fun day with that, and in the end it still won't stay tight/level.

If tightness was a pre-requisite, and I don't think it is in this case, you'd be better off with a set of "jam-nuts", however, 3/16" alum chassis plate? Might end up stripping the threads if you over-tightened steel against it.

VPI might envisage the "loose thread" as an extra level of decoupling. (Consider Stillpoints? Stillpoints U.S. advise against tightening the body of the footer against the chassis. Instead they recommend leaving a 0.5-1mm air gap between footer body and chassis then level it outwards from there. If the Stillpoint is a 2 stage device then this applies to both stages i.e. loosen the bottom of the footer 0.5 turn, then establish a clearance for the whole footer.)

I know that to the mechanical purists (such as ourselves) it looks shaky but there's method in their madness

 

[Gordon Gray]

Victor,

Thanks for that perspective.

If that's VPI's answer to vibration control and the picture indicates the desired setup, I have nothing more to say.

I think comparing that setup to Stillpoint technology is a bit of a stretch.

GG

 

[MrBT]

Thanks everybody for comments.

The cones VPI is using in traveler are actually pretty good. They are very well dampened and give quite a bit of resistance while turning but you're right I shouldn't extend it that far, as I got carried away with leveling.

It was slow and gradual process of plinth bowing. A couple of months ago I started noticing it up to the point it became clearly visible.

Yesterday I paid VPI Industries HQ a visit. They didn't ask many question, nor did I.
Dropped off the faulty Traveler and walked out with brand new SCOUT 1.1 :rocker: just paying price difference between the two models.

Overall, I trust VPI's manufacturing quality and decided to "invest" more money by upgrading to higher model.

P.S. I didn't really walked out with the SCAUT, they will send it to me sometime next week

 

[Gordon Gray]

Very cool. Glad things worked out.

 

[Victor]

Mr BT,
Nice! Congratulations on a fine choice! The Scout is a highly regarded turntable.

Gordon,
You're welcome, but only the method of attachment compares.
FWIW, You are not alone. When I first saw how Stillpoints were loosely attached my reaction was equally sceptical.
Sadly, there is no mystique or high tech. The fixings are standard threads like the VPI above. It allows manufacturers to switch footer suppliers if they need to.

Kind regards,

 

[twich54]

good for you !

 

[slowGEEZR]

That's great! I've really enjoyed my Scout.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Victor,

I just read through a lengthy thread on this product on the WBF forum and your observations (looseness) are certainly correct and recommended by the manufacturer.

However, something else is going on with the "internal" mechanism of the Stillpoints such as ball bearings, vibrations attenuated by heat dissipation, etc. that are integral to the vibration dampening characteristics of their product.

I may be wrong about the VPI Traveler cones but I suspect they don't incorporate the additional tech that the Stillpoints do.

Best,

Gordon

 

[Victor]

Gordon,
You are reading too much into what I'm saying.
Also, you didn't read my later post :

"Gordon,
You're welcome, but only the method of attachment compares."

VPI's feet are solid alloy with rubber tips. Everyone knows this. As a Stillpoint owner I can tell you they are not "Stillpoints" either in appearance or function.

There's even a good chance that Stillpoints are interchangeable with those feet (but you'd have to ask the manufacturer).
Hope this helps.
Kind regards,

 

[slowGEEZR]

Victor, just to be clear, the VPI feet do not have rubber tips. The tips are a machined ball, inserted into the bottom of the feet. On the feet supplied with my Scout, there is what appears to be a rubber gasket on top of the feet. I don't even see the rubber gasket on the traveller's feet, in the picture provided. As an aside, I found very real improvement by using VPI's Mini HRX feet.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Thanks Victor.

That will teach me to not travel (pun intended) without sufficient knowledge.

Out of curiosity, where do you use the Stillpoint products and what model(s) do you use?

I've read reviews that describe various sonic impacts depending on where and what models were installed.

Gordon

 

[MrBT]

Victor, just to be clear, the VPI feet do not have rubber tips.

Yes they do. At least in Traveler.

 

[Victor]

Thanks for clarifying, Steve(Slowgeezr). So there are VPI experts out there!
I’d already made one VPI mistake on the Thread, and, hell, I’m not proud, I can apologise for two!
(I think that was a slight Freudian slip on my part as there was an assumption the rubber was essential to combat micro-rocking at the base of the 4 feet – at least that’s usually how it goes. Sorry for that anyway….)

Please don’t take this as a criticism, but rectangular tables like these understandably tend to have 4 feet, which is not my personal ideal scenario.
My custom made oak tripod has rectangular shelves but only one person ever tried to lean on the unsupported front corner - my local hifi dealer(!) :O 
In retrospect I should have asked them to cut large mitres across the corners to discourage this (at least on the top shelf).
The acrobatic leap as I moved to intercept was a “10/10”.
It’s ok BTW…he’s still on my Christmas card list…

An earlier version of the turntable with tripod can be seen here. Mine was the first tripod the manufacturer created in his early days as a one-man business -

http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/newsdetails.php?newsId=11

You can just make out the leading Stillpoint, the footers which are still in use to this day.

Obviously a kitchen table, if one of the 4 feet is out, won’t care too much but in the case of a turntable, even a small amount of micro-rocking could be disruptive?
In this respect, a solid connection through ball-bearing to footer isn’t going to be helpful. I’m wondering how VPI elected to combat micro-rocking?
Were you suggesting there is a rubber cup the ball bearing sits in, which provides enough compliance to eliminate the micro-movement and provide a minor degree of shock absorption?

Best regards,