To Biwire or not To Biwire

[David100]

Hello,
I received my brand new ML Summits (maple/black) a week ago, connected them to my Plinius SA-201 amp (fed by Plinius M8 pre-amp) and although speakers have still to break in, sound is already great. Now I have to improve some other parts of the system : new source will be Plinius CD-101, and I have to buy new cables (today I have very basic low quality cables).

Size of speaker cables will be quite long (2 x 26 feet).
ML Logan manual says there is no need to biwire.

Questions :

1. Even if there is no need to, Is it BETTER to biwire or not ? Does it improve anything ? Or absolutely nothing ?
2. Consequently, should I invest in a good quality biwire cable, or in a better quality single wire ?
3. I am looking, for good cables, but I want to stay rational (lot of money ran in the system already). Does someone have a recommandation about good rational cables for long lenght ?

Thank you very much for your help.
David.

 

[David100]

Well, I just saw that there was an other post about long cables. Good. So I already found some interesting answers. I should have looked before.
Question about biwiring remains open, and all additional advice is more than welcome.
Thanks

 

[David100]

Me again - Additional question :

Should cable really be terminated or not. Some specialist in a shop told me it is much better not to terminate them and connect directly to the speakers and amp, in order to avoid any unnecessary additional disturbance of signal.
What do you think ?

 

[ScottGardner]

Terminating prevents oxidation. Pure copper and silver will corrode over time, gold will not. If you're willing to re-do the connections periodically don't terminate.

Edit: If you go bare make sure the ends are clean. Especially don't touch them as the oils in your fingers will jump start the oxidation.

 

[MotorToad]

Bi-wiring, if nothing else, effectively doubles the gauge of the wire. I'm sure they're right in that you don't need to, but I'd certainly try it. I like the idea of having the signals to each side of the crossover carried separately, but it's more for OCD than any empirical reason. When you buy the cables ask if you can audition two or three sets to see what works. And audition them long enough to break everything in.

 

[MiTT]

I can't say with regard to the Summit's, but with my old ReQuest's there was a noticible benefit from bi-wiring. My current CLS setup doesn't allow for bi-wiring obviously because there is no crossover.

26' is a very long speaker cable!?!

 

[robertawillisjr]

If you already have the wires, give it a shot. If not, take a good look at your wallet and decide.

Since ML say there isn't any benefit to biwiring the Summit, I would take their word for it.

 

[Craig]

Is there any way you can shorten the speaker cable length? 26' is a very long run and will be expensive. Bi-wire will only add to the costs and finding speaker cable at that length will significantly reduce the selection.

I use bi-wire on my speakers because that's what I already have but if I were to buy new wire I would choose a better quality single wire over a lower grade bi-wire any day. Connect the single wire to the high freq terminals and jump to the low freg terminals.

Bare end cables have less to interfere with the signal but any benefit you might get with bare cables is not worth it in my opinion. You also run the risk of a poor connection at the terminals or a stray strand of wire shorting across to another terminal causing damage to your equipment.

It's contradictory to use 26' feet of speaker cable and then use bare end's to try and improve sonics. You'll more likely improve sonics with a much shorter speaker cable.

 

[jtwrace]

Terminating prevents oxidation. Pure copper and silver will corrode over time, gold will not. If you're willing to re-do the connections periodically don't terminate.

Edit: If you go bare make sure the ends are clean. Especially don't touch them as the oils in your fingers will jump start the oxidation.

This is why I use this http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.292/.f on everything before hookup and if I take anything apart. I even use it in the breaker box.

 

[FISH_MAN]

If you already have the wires, give it a shot. If not, take a good look at your wallet and decide.

Since ML say there isn't any benefit to biwiring the Summit, I would take their word for it.

I do not biwire my spires either and if ml says their is no benefit why do
they offer two sets of binding post on the back? I use high quality 10guage cooper wire by the foot whith spade terminators.

 

[RichTeer]

Well, I just saw that there was an other post about long cables. Good. So I already found some interesting answers. I should have looked before.
Question about biwiring remains open, and all additional advice is more than welcome.
Thanks

I've long been a fan of bi-wiring, so I say go for it, using the best cable you can afford. I'm kinda disappointed that the CLX has no provision for bi-wiring...

 

[robertawillisjr]

I do not biwire my spires either and if ml says their is no benefit why do
they offer two sets of binding post on the back? I use high quality 10guage cooper wire by the foot whith spade terminators.

ML's user guides (amplified woofer modes) state that bi-wire capability is included solely because most owners of older ML models have invested heavily in bi-wire cables.

 

[MotorToad]

I've long been a fan of bi-wiring, so I say go for it, using the best cable you can afford. I'm kinda disappointed that the CLX has no provision for bi-wiring...

There's no crossover... no splitting the signal. No bi-wire!

 

[tonyc]

David, I tried both ways on my Summits and I prefer bi-wired to single wired with jumpers. This has been true with every speaker cable I have tried and has been true with every speaker (whether cones/domes, stats or ribbons) as well. But 26' is possibly going to be cost prohibitive.

 

[RichTeer]

There's no crossover... no splitting the signal. No bi-wire!

Well, that is a pretty damned good reason!

 

[VanDaRo]

First of all, congrats on the Summits !

Next -- ML does not recommend bi-wiring simply because the of the internally powered woofers. Kinda like a subwoofer, y'know ?? All that the ICEamps require is a line-level signal, so sending a dedicated higher voltage/current signal from your amplifier(s) to them serves no purpose -- it'll be attenuated to suit the internal ICEamp's input requirements anyway...

That being said, experimentation might be in order... Trust YOUR ears. But in all likelihood, ML is telling you the truth.

Remember this though: There are several high-end speaker manufacturers that simply do not even provide for bi-wiring (Thiel comes to mind) because they say that the user is better off buying a single run of "better" speaker cable. I should note here that I bi-wire and bi-amp my Logans -- so I'm not exactly in agreement with ol' Jim Thiel on this one.

Any-hoo, good luck and definitely let this forum know what you discover in your listening tests.

~VDR

 

[RichTeer]

There's no crossover... no splitting the signal. No bi-wire!

Further to my other reply to this, the ML CLX specs page lists a crossover frequency of 360 Hz and describes the components used, so I'm pretty sure that the CLX does have a crossover. Which brings me back to my original question: I wonder why the CLX has no provision for bi-wiring?

 

[Feltran]

Further to my other reply to this, the ML CLX specs page lists a crossover frequency of 360 Hz and describes the components used, so I'm pretty sure that the CLX does have a crossover. Which brings me back to my original question: I wonder why the CLX has no provision for bi-wiring?

Did the CLS? I imagine it's because it's all electrostatic, so they think you're best off only having one power source (I understand people often bi-wire with a single amp, but it may be that the feature is really there so you can use two separate amps). When you bi-wire the Spires, or similar speakers, it's one wire going to the electrostatic panel, and the other going to the woofer.

 

[Jazzplayer]

Biwire!

Congrats on your new speakers! I have always found biwiring to be beneficial, but the degree is somewhat dependent on speaker, I do not know how much the improvement would be in the Summit. I also agree with some of the other posters that you should look at other ways of configuring the system to get to a shorter speaker cable length. By doing that you may be able to afford a much better speaker cable than if you are going for the 26 ft length. With my Logans I have had great success with Nordost cables, so my recommendation is to at least try these, they have models in all price ranges. I have heard the Valhalla, which is hideously expensive, but out-of-this world good, on Summits. The Summit will show the difference between cables quite clearly, so going cheap will not give you max out of your Summit investment.

All the best,
Svein

 

[MotorToad]

Further to my other reply to this, the ML CLX specs page lists a crossover frequency of 360 Hz and describes the components used, so I'm pretty sure that the CLX does have a crossover. Which brings me back to my original question: I wonder why the CLX has no provision for bi-wiring?

I was actually thinking of the CLS. Oops.