Thinking of Purchasing a Turntable; Any and All Advice Welcome!

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

Great choice of Technics turntable and Manley Preamplifer and great recommendation. I have been eyeing both for quite some time in the past. I believe both components offer maximum value for money spent. Beyond which diminishing returns sets in. Do not know much about cartridges. So not possible to accurately comment.

Have fun listening to music.:music:

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

Jason, an approx. decade old but Eisa award winning turntable Thorens TD 309. Price around USD 2000.

Denon DL103R MC is very good for the price. Heard only good things about 103R.

Ronald Logan Sutherland seems to me make great phono preamps. You are on the right track with Sutherland Vibe preamp.

If you can afford to spend greater amount then do not buy the entry level preamp from Sutherland.

Whatever you select listen before buying.

Have fun listening to music.:music:

 

[JLasher22443]

Thanks everyone for the replies. After more research and talking with stores I went with the VPI Prime but not the Unipivot; the Gimbaled. The two reasons I went with this option were; its Made in the USA and upgradeability later.

On order and waiting:

VPI Prime with Gimbaled JWM-10-3D Tonearm
AT-ART9
Lehmannaudio Decade

Plan to sit that on a Solidsteel S5-4 in the right corner of the room which puts it about 10 feet away from the Marantz. Went with Audioquest Leopard for connection between table and Decade. Chose Audioquest Water for the long distance run from Decade to the Marantz.

Currently looking at cleaning machines and other accessories needed like a dust cover, light for stand, carbon brush, and the Onzow Zerodust. Any recommendations on Dust Covers, Accessories, or Cleaning Machines would be greatly appreciated.

The Machines I'm considering:

Nessie - Vinylmaster
VPI - MW-1 Cyclone
Degritter Record Cleaning Machine
Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner Pro
Kirmuss Audio

Does anyone have experience with either of these products?

Also looking at Dust Cover options. Amazon has one that looks nice for $360 but also looking at the one on Upscale Audio's website.

 

[Spike]

VPI Prime with Gimbaled JWM-10-3D Tonearm
AT-ART9
Lehmannaudio Decade

Impressive set for analogue!! I hope you did not overshoot your target budget too much and I am sure you'll have fun with your set-up. Beware though of the slippery slope of GAS. I was on this route before and I found myself perusing A'gon, Upscale & other sites, in search for...cartridges!! At this system caliber, for a while, I was always wondering "what could my rig do with a better cartridge?" and I was seriously considering the likes of Koetsu Rosewood, Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua, Sound-Smith The Voice, etc... I ended up with Sound-Smith The Voice, Sound-Smith Zephyr MIMC Star, and Aidas Purpleheart in rotations. Needless to say, I had (and am having) WAAY too much fun. Consider yourself warned!!
Anyways, congratulations on your purchase and I am sure you'll enjoy your new analogue addition to your system.

 

[twich54]

Congrats Jason, good luck with your new toys !

as for RCM's I have a VPI 16.5 that I've been using for years with great success, I see no reason why you wouldn't be happy with the MW1

 

[JLasher22443]

Thanks Dave and Spike. Hope to have everything in and setup some time this week; maybe by Friday.

Now since I am going to be using mostly used records; what steps should I take so I don't ruin my cartridge within the first month of listening? What process do you guys use when listening to a record? Any and all advice is welcome.

Also my budget went up because my lovely wife purchased the table, cartridge, and phono stage for me for my 40th birthday and 20th anniversary as a combined gift. Greatest Wife Ever! So now my budget can go towards records and accessories. So please give me the do's and don'ts of Vinyl because I'm excited but also very nervous with tons of questions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Spike]

Hope to have everything in and setup some time this week

If you have not done so, you'll need some basic alignment tools/accessories to set up your turntable:

1. Alignment protractor. I am using one from AccuTrak. Lucky for me, my Technics turntable is one of the standard ones listed. Please contact AccuTrak with your turntable & tonearm info for the protractor with your specs. There are other alignment tools which are more expensive and I don't have experience with them.
   AccuTrak standard protractors
2. Stylus tracking force gauge. There are mechanical and electronic versions. I am using the Shure SFG-2 mechanical one and it's more than sufficient for my use.
   Shure SFG-2 Stylus Tracking Force Gauge
3. Azimuth alignment block. To ensure the stylus is aligned vertically.
   Hudson Azimuth Alignment Block

Beside the ones mentioned above, you already have the record cleaning machine on your list so I won't go there. You'll also need a stylus brush and a record brush. If you are not familiar with the alignment procedure, there are lots of youtube videos explaining the steps. Just search for "turntable setup alignment" as keywords on youtube and you'll get plenty. That should keep you busy for a while.
Best of luck and I hope you and your wife will have many hours of enjoyment listening to records.

 

[twich54]

Jonathan, if you look at my system pics you will see the TT light that I have, attached to wall behind my TT, which allows for bending into the shape required, works great.

As for cleaning solutions with your RCM, I utilize reagent grade water https://www.grainger.com/product/49...kwcid=AL!2966!3!284618243412!!!g!371261532844
but distilled water works fine. DO NOT use tap water ! As for my cleaning solution I prefer L'Art du Son https://hifiheaven.net/shop/L-Art-d...MIxoGet96a6QIVkYnICh0YSQUpEAQYAiABEgLpUvD_BwE
After working this solution with brush on my RCM the vacuum is follow with a straight water rinse and another vacuum.

Keeping the vacuum wad micro fibre clean is easily accomplished with an old toothbrush between each record cleaning.

 

[JLasher22443]

Thanks guys for the info.

The Rack came in and I got it built and leveled. Added a cheap light from Amazon made for desks. Has dimming and 4 different light colors. Still unsure if I like it for this application so thanks for the suggestion Dave, I'll look at possibly wall mounting the light. It currently clamps onto the stand but it can't go direct center of the rear because of the floating shelves. Thinking I may screw it into the wall like yours or mount another slab of wood to the bottom of the rack and out so it can clamp to that.

Table, Phono, and Cables should be here today. Won't get those powered on until the Furman Elite is in.

Also I went ahead with the VPI 16.5 RCM as you suggested Dave. I'll make sure to get those cleaning products as well.

So for the used dirty LP's you wash with brush + cleaning fluid -> Vacuum -> Rinse -> and vacuum again for every cleaning before you listen?

Also you guys were talking DAC's and I do a lot of streaming in the house with Roon and my iMac acting as the server. That goes to Sonos Amps, Bluos, Apple 4K TV, and B&W Wedge in Kitchen. What other DAC do you recommend that is Roon Ready and can beat out the Bluesound Node 2i but not break the bank? And will I tell a huge difference between the Node 2i and say the Auralic Altair G1? I mean like night and day difference? LOL

Last question; where do you purchase your records? I already have a few coming in from Acoustic Sounds and Discogs. Once this COVID Quarantine dies down my plan is to visit a few Record Stores near me. Suggestions?

 

[Spike]

Also you guys were talking DAC's and I do a lot of streaming in the house with Roon and my iMac acting as the server. That goes to Sonos Amps, Bluos, Apple 4K TV, and B&W Wedge in Kitchen. What other DAC do you recommend that is Roon Ready and can beat out the Bluesound Node 2i but not break the bank? And will I tell a huge difference between the Node 2i and say the Auralic Altair G1? I mean like night and day difference? LOL

FOUL!!! out-of-bound! this is the ANALOG section. Digital questions not allowed. Just kidding. Are you looking to stream to your main ML rig or only streaming to your other systems? Or both? You'll probably get more meaningful responses if you post in the digital section.

Last question; where do you purchase your records? I already have a few coming in from Acoustic Sounds and Discogs. Once this COVID Quarantine dies down my plan is to visit a few Record Stores near me. Suggestions?

Discogs for me most of the time. Sometimes Amazon for conveniences. For those 180g collectibles, I purchased from MusicDirect, and ElusiveDisc.

 

[JLasher22443]

FOUL!!! out-of-bound! this is the ANALOG section. Digital questions not allowed. Just kidding. Are you looking to stream to your main ML rig or only streaming to your other systems? Or both? You'll probably get more meaningful responses if you post in the digital section.


Discogs for me most of the time. Sometimes Amazon for conveniences. For those 180g collectibles, I purchased from MusicDirect, and ElusiveDisc.

LOL! My Bad. I'm thinking of replacing the Bluos Node in the home theater if the price is right and I can really tell the difference. So yes on the ML Rig. All of the other speakers outside and inside are Roon Ready so no issue there. I can open my cell phone app or the iPad installed in the wall for whole home control and Roon runs everything.

I'll check out ElusiveDisc thanks.

Also another question for everyone. I've got a Furman Elite coming in for the Analog rack; but I was thinking of getting one of the Audioquest Niagara 1200 and plugging both Panamax's and the Furman into it. Or is that just overkill?

 

[twich54]

Also I went ahead with the VPI 16.5 RCM as you suggested Dave. I'll make sure to get those cleaning products as well.

So for the used dirty LP's you wash with brush + cleaning fluid -> Vacuum -> Rinse -> and vacuum again for every cleaning before you listen?

Jason, no, first off, even 'new' LP's should be cleaned before the first use. Ok, after I clean an LP I make sure it is put in an achievable sleeve

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-J4sPu...MIut-Ikq6b6QIVQQiICR0PAA4zEAQYAiABEgJkefD_BwE

after that I take a sharpie and so note the date of 'cleaning' on a corner of the sleeve, depending on the # of times the album is played it doesn't go through the 'cleaning process' for years ! My pre-cleaning before playing is simply using my Disc Care 2+2 Record Brush, a carbon fiber / chamois brush that I consider to be the BEST. Unfortunately I think they are no longer in production. (Pic Attached)

Are you up on proper stylus care / cleaning ?

Last question; where do you purchase your records? I already have a few coming in from Acoustic Sounds and Discogs. Once this COVID Quarantine dies down my plan is to visit a few Record Stores near me. Suggestions?

In addition to what you have mentioned....Music Direct, Elusive Disc and Amazon. If you're ever in N Jersey, Princeton Jct Record Exchange is stellar as is Record Archive in Upstate NY (Rochester)

 

[JLasher22443]

So I got the following items coming in from Amazon.

Mobile Fidelity: Record Cleaning Brush (For cleaning on RCM)
Mobile Fidelity - Super Record Wash (32oz) (For cleaning on RCM)
AudioQuest Anti-Static Record Brush
Milty Zerostat 3 Anti-Static Gun
Boundless Audio Stylus Cleaner Brush
And now just ordered the Mobile Fidelity Original Master Sleeves (Per your recommendation)


Also got these items from Music Direct.

Clearaudio - Weight Watcher Touch Electronic Stylus Force Gauge
AudioShield - AS400 TableTop Dust Cover
ONZOW ZeroDust - Stylus Cleaner

As for stylus cleaning I've watched a few videos and how to properly brush the stylus. Does that count? LOL

 

[Spike]

With regards to your BlueNote, you can route digital out from BlueNote to your Marantz AV-pre to see whether you can hear the difference. If I were in your shoes and want to upgrade, I'd leave the BlueNote alone and upgrade the AV-pre.
Back to the turntable, you have not mentioned whether you have plans to get the cartridge set-up and aligned. Are you doing it by yourself, or will somebody come to set-up for you? It's very important to have the cartridge aligned correctly.

I've got a Furman Elite coming in for the Analog rack; but I was thinking of getting one of the Audioquest Niagara 1200 and plugging both Panamax's and the Furman into it. Or is that just overkill?

No, I would not piggy back the Panamax & Furman to the AudioQuest. They are meant to be plugged directly to the AC outlet.

 

[JLasher22443]

Thanks Spike for the recommendation. So I think I may have had it hooked up the wrong way at first anyways. When I purchased it I hooked it up with a cheap Toslink. Didn’t even try it any other way. Just plugged it in and went with it. Then after I started this thread I did some research and tried changing it to the Digital Coax. That seemed to really make a difference. Haven’t tried taking it out the RCA’s tho. So for now I’ll wait and save. Yah I really want the McIntosh MX123. That is definitely the next purchase

VPI mounted the Cartridge to the Prime before they shipped it. Dealer I purchased from reached out to VPI and handled everything for me. All I have to do is follow the setup video they have on YouTube I’m guessing. It will be a learning experience for sure. The VPI will be here tomorrow and my cables came in today. The cables are impressive. Shocked the Water came in a silk pouch. LOL

 

[Spike]

Yah I really want the McIntosh MX123

The McIntosh AV processor is one way to go. Given that your Marantz AV processor is a good digital unit, another option is to upgrade with a McIntosh stereo preamp like C49 or C53. These 2 units have home-theater bypass where you have an option for full control from Marantz for watching movies. But for the stereo music listening with analogue (or high-resolution digital) sources, the stereo preamp will be much better. In the past, when I had an integrated system for both music and movies, I specifically required this "HT bypass" feature on my preamp and it worked out great.
It's great the your cartridge comes mounted by VPI. I still think you'll need the protractor for cartridge alignment in the future should you replace the cartridge. No rush for now, but something to keep in mind.

 

[JLasher22443]

The McIntosh AV processor is one way to go. Given that your Marantz AV processor is a good digital unit, another option is to upgrade with a McIntosh stereo preamp like C49 or C53. These 2 units have home-theater bypass where you have an option for full control from Marantz for watching movies. But for the stereo music listening with analogue (or high-resolution digital) sources, the stereo preamp will be much better. In the past, when I had an integrated system for both music and movies, I specifically required this "HT bypass" feature on my preamp and it worked out great.
It's great the your cartridge comes mounted by VPI. I still think you'll need the protractor for cartridge alignment in the future should you replace the cartridge. No rush for now, but something to keep in mind.

I’m not sure I’m following you on how that will work or be cabled up? So the C49 or C53 would sit between the Phono Preamp and the Marantz? All Amps still connect to the Marantz? Or will it sit between the Phonostage and the MC452 then out to the Montis For just two channel listening? And from the Marantz I’d bring a connection to the C53 for the Movie 2 Channel Audio?

 

[Spike]

Here's an old drawing of my combined system, the processor is Meridian 565 and I connected the main left & right channel to my ModWright preamp to drive my mains speakers. The surround channels are connected to my multi-channel Primare amplifier. When watching movies, the selector on my ModWright preamp is set to "HT bypass" to bypass the volume control in the preamp. This feature allows the Meridian processor to control the volume for all channels, including the main left & right. It's as if the main left & right channel is directly connected from the processor to my main left & right amplifiers. For 2 channel music, the processor is turned off, and I select the my streamer as my input going through my analog preamp. This music mode is equivalent to selecting the Lehmann phono stage in your system.

Here's the same old drawing of my combined system in PDF format.
View attachment Audio Drawing Old.pdf

 

[twich54]

Jason, if you haven't made a RCM purchased decision yet you might want to take a look ...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWMSpvTqM2A

for a $150 less than the VPI it seems like a nice alternative ..........

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRVCS2ALU

 

[JLasher22443]

Ok I think I understand what you meant Spike. I’ll do some research and sell a few things I’m not using. LOL

Dave I already got the VPI on order but thanks. I did watch that video you shared already along with his string cleaning machine.

So the VPI came in and I have it all set up and cabled. Now I’m trying to figure out what to set the DIP Switches to on the Decade to work with the ART9. Since its so late think I’ll call it a night and give the vendor a call tomorrow. Do you guys have any ideas what I should be setting them too? I see the ART9 needs the Impedance of a Min 100Ω but what about the Input capacitance? Thanks in advance.