Thinking of Purchasing a Turntable; Any and All Advice Welcome!

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Spike

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Here's an excerpt from my Chinook user manual on the topic of capacitance. FYI, my Chinook is set to 50pF (basically the default value) and it's working great.
You should contact your vendor to get the correct dip settings for the Lehmann.

Typical phono interconnect cables will exhibit self-capacitance on the order of about 20-30 pF per foot. If the interconnect cable is 3 feet (~ 1 meter) in length, you may expect about 60-90 pF of input capacitance to be present due to the interconnect cable alone.
For example, if the cartridge manufacturer specifies a load capacitance of 150 pF then it is best to subtract the cable's portion, i.e. 90 pF. This yields a balance of 60 pF. Thus, the audition should start with the termination capacitance switches set to 50 pF.
Each cartridge manufacturer's product will work best in a laboratory sense when terminated (loaded) with a certain amount of resistance and capacitance. A good place to start is with those values recommended by the cartridge manufacturer, less the interconnect cable capacitance. A good default value, if the recommended cartridge load capacitance is unknown, is 150 pF, the sum of cable and termination capacitance switch settings. This value reflects a de-facto standard as used by pre-amp manufacturers past and present. From there, we encourage you to try a range of switch settings until you find those values which best suit you and your accompanying components.
 

JLasher22443

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Update; everything is connected up and running great! Had a little issue with the AT-ART9 and I'm waiting on a replacement to be sent to me. Should get the replacement by the end of the month straight from VPI with a surprise. For now I'm running an Ortofon MC Quintet Red since it was the only cart I could find in stock near me. Also got the Kallax from Ikea in along with records and the RCM. Going to need a little lamp near the RCM and still waiting on my father-in-law to dig his records out of storage for me. For now I've purchased probably 24-30 records to start my own collection. Listed a few below. I've listened to about half of them already; some twice.

I've been making changes to the Marantz settings for speaker levels and two channel playback. The Pure Direct Option sounds best so far. Really going to consider purchasing that Preamp setup you suggested Spike. Looking at either the PrimaLuna EVO 400 or the McIntosh C2700 or C53. Really not sure which to go with. I've heard great things about the EVO 400 online with reading reviews and watching videos. But with my McIntosh Amp I'm thinking of sticking with Mac. Something will be purchased within the next 2 to 3 weeks. Also I'm pretty sure I'm going to grab a different Streamer to replace the Bluos Node 2. The room has really transformed into music listening and not movies and I'm loving it!

Next on the list is a major cleanup and cable management. LOL Have tons of Velcro and management systems coming in. Thanks again guys for the recommendations. Please keep them coming. All opinions are welcome and appreciated.







Here are a few of the records I got to Start my collection.

Dire Straits Dire Straits Numbered Limited Edition 45rpm 180g 2LP
Vanessa Fernandez I Want You 180g 45rpm 2LP
Kandace Springs The Women Who Raised Me
Helen Merrill / Helen Merrill
Melody Gardot My One and Only Thrill
Ahmad Jamal Trio / Ahmad Jamal At The Pershing
Duke Ellington / Masterpieces By Ellington
Norah Jones / Come Away With Me
Thelonious Monk Quartet / Monk's Dream
ALEG 80571 Miles Davis / Kind of Blue
AMOB 45011 Miles Davis / Kind Of Blue
Dire Straits / Brothers In Arms
Melody Gardot / My One And Only Thrill
Gorillaz / Demon Days
Various Artists / The Sound Of Jazz
Dave Brubeck Quartet / Time Out
John Coltrane / Blue Train
Various - A Very Special Christmas (Must have since it was the first record I ever heard as a kid. Picked up the 1987 Version off of Discogs)
Dave Rawlings Machine - Nashville Obsolete
Jimmy Scott - I Go Back Home
Ry Cooder - The Prodigal Son
 

Spike

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Looking at either the PrimaLuna EVO 400 or the McIntosh C2700 or C53.
Given that I am in the minimalist camp, my vote is for the EVO 400 if I were to consider between these 3 models. I agree that the Mac preamps will probably match (aesthetically) with the Mac amps, but you're also paying for redundant features like internal phono stage and internal DAC. If you're thinking of upgrading the preamp, please take time to consider others as well: ModWright, Rogue, Pass, etc... In the end, you still might end up with the EVO 400 since it sets a pretty high bar, but at least you will be making an informed decision.

Something will be purchased within the next 2 to 3 weeks
Whoa!! Slow down there pardner!! What's the rush? Take time to do your homework and enjoy the journey.
 

twich54

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first off Jason, congrats on getting this far, second, as Spike said , easy there fella, take time to smell the roses !

As far as preamps / line stages, I'd buy 100% American right now over anything assembled off shore !! I'm a huge fan of Rogue and yes Mark Obrien is a friend of mine but regardless his gear is that good. It's designed and built HERE !
 

JLasher22443

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Thanks guys for the advice. I'll keep researching and listening to music for now. Last night I enjoyed Thelonious Monk Quartet / Monk's Dream that I got from Acoustic Sounds. Wow what a great album! Really enjoyed and had to listen to Side 2 twice.

 

twich54

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Jason, glad you're enjoying your new analog set up !

One more thing of note, your TT is set up in a corner, not good, the reason being, corners of rooms, unless 'trapped' are a gathering location for bass nodes and as such can and will create feedback issues with your vinyl playback. this of course is directly related to volume !

the best place for TT location is along a side wall, avoiding the 'first point of reflection' location.
 
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JLasher22443

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Jason, glad you're enjoying your new analog set up !

One more thing of note, your TT is set up in a corner, not good, the reason being, corners of rooms, unless 'trapped' are a gathering location for bass nodes and as such can and will create feedback issues with your vinyl playback. this of course is directly related to volume !

the best place for TT location is along a side wall, avoiding the 'first point of selection' location.
I'm in the process of buying an entire room kit from Acoustimac or GIK. The plan is to have four 4'x2' corner bass traps and I'm ordering another four 2'x2' corner bass traps for down low below my chair rail in the room. Hope to have them in within a few weeks. Also I did a test with a lot of bass in the room to see if I could feel it on the table or even on the stand itself; nothing. Is there a device to test actual vibration on the table itself? Or am I not going to be able to test what it is you are referring to?
 

twich54

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First off, corner bass trapping(done correctly) combined with first point of reflection are always good places to start. Jonathan (Jonfo) is our resident acoustic expert. FWIW, my front corner bass traps(floor to ceiling) are GIK's where as my back corner traps are DIY's.

With respect to the TT just because you couldn't 'feel' the bass the sensitivity of the stylus/cantilever assembly is far more sensitive to the influences of bass in a corner of a room. Will trapping the corner help, yes indeed, is it the ideal place to locate a TT, never.........
 

JLasher22443

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How far out from the corner/back wall are we talking about moving the rack? Its currently 12inches off of both walls. I could potentially move it out from the back wall another 2 feet. But man is that going to suck to have to take that TT down and put it back up. LOL
 

twich54

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How far out from the corner/back wall are we talking about moving the rack? Its currently 12inches off of both walls. I could potentially move it out from the back wall another 2 feet. But man is that going to suck to have to take that TT down and put it back up. LOL
as I stated in Post #46, the best place for ones TT is a side wall but 'not' at the first point of reflection.

Jason, get your acoustic treatments finished, and when listening to known tracks on LP's that you own, listen for discernible differences when volume is increased. If you hear a sibilance or other noticeable change, especially during a bass heavy track a change in location is in order
 

Spike

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I helped a friend of mine with his Technics SL-1200GR turntable on a wall-mounted shelf, in a corner above his sub. Granted that his heavy-duty homemade wooden shelf is very sturdy, we had to combat the vibration going through the wall studs, to his turntable. The solution we found was...sorbothane, specifically the "boots" from MK Stands (link to Technics 1200 boots). With these boots, the vibrations from the subs get absorbed completely and the stylus is rock-solid during play. Now, I am not advocating these Technics specific boots for your system, but rather the take-away keyword of "sorbothane".
Looking for "sorbothane" turntable isolation feet will lead you to MNPC Tech (link to MNPC Tech Turntable Isolation Feet). These have better aesthetics than the DJ-oriented boots from MK Stands and they have a model for VPI turntables. Same as always, your mileage may vary...
 

JLasher22443

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So yesterday I played an album that was very Bass heavy; Starboy by The Weekend. Turned it up to a Volume Level that I would not normally use for in room listening. And turned the SVS Sub Up from -28db to -16db and let it eat. The VPI Prime never skipped and the LP sounded great even tho it had a slight dent or imperfection on the album. Never did it skip or seem bad to me? Maybe I'm still very new to 2 channel listening and I'm not familiar enough with what it should sound like? Either way it was a good experience for me to mess around with the system and listen to another genre of music on Vinyl. I'm still planning on purchasing the Acoustimac Home Theater Room Package II and extra Bass traps for each corner.

 

JLasher22443

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Hey Dave the Bass Traps and Acoustic Panels came in. So I moved the rack out of the corner. Its now 32 inches from the back wall to the back of the rack. There are some photos below. Let me know if you think that will be enough. The other option would be to relocate all of the equipment from the main cabinet up front to move the Preamp and amp to the right. That would give me enough cable to move the turntable rack down the wall and past the first reflection point.

Untitled by Jason Lasher, on Flickr

Untitled by Jason Lasher, on Flickr

Untitled by Jason Lasher, on Flickr
 

twich54

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Jason, looking good ! the most important question is, how does it sound to you ? I would say so long as you don't hear any type of distortion, sibilance, etc as the volume is increased you're good !
 

JLasher22443

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Jason, looking good ! the most important question is, how does it sound to you ? I would say so long as you don't hear any type of distortion, sibilance, etc as the volume is increased you're good !
So unfortunately I haven't finished the install of all the panels just yet. The four corners took me the longest because of having to move equipment and speakers. I hope to have them all done today and listen to a few albums tonight. I added a total of 20+ panels in the room. Also I plan to buy 4 - 2'x4' Diffusers from GIK to put in the first and rear reflection points; which are the windows with the insulation inserts. Thanks and I'll keep you posted.
 

Spike

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Looks like your analogue rig is coming along nicely. I can't help but notice the Ortofon Red still on your turntable. Whatever happened with the issue you encountered with the ART-9?
 

JLasher22443

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Looks like your analogue rig is coming along nicely. I can't help but notice the Ortofon Red still on your turntable. Whatever happened with the issue you encountered with the ART-9?
Still waiting on a replacement from the vendor. When I got everything up and running I took the dust cover off the ART9 and dropped the needle. The arm just slowly slid across the record. So I kept messing with the anti skate thinking it was that like the video showed and me being inexperienced I didn't know any better. Finally after chatting with the vendor he asked for a photo of the cart up close. And this is what I sent him.



He was like yah that's broken. He said it must have been broken during setup on the arm before it got sent to me or from packing it up in the box. So I have been patiently waiting on the replacement to be sent. At this point I'm ready to buy a third cart. Also I believe COVID is messing up the process for the vendor to get me a new one.
 

Spike

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At this point I'm ready to buy a third cart
I remember warning you about this "slippery slope" a while back. I was the one who went down this path before and now ended up with 3 cartridges in rotations.
 

JLasher22443

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I remember warning you about this "slippery slope" a while back. I was the one who went down this path before and now ended up with 3 cartridges in rotations.
LOL. Yah I don't listen very well. However I do really appreciate everyones advice on this forum. Especially members like you, Dave, and a few others that have been around for a long time and have given me solid advice over the years. It's funny that I don't always listen until later when what was stated in the past, comes to fruition. LOL Like I know Dave and JonFo harped on me in multiple posts in my members thread over the years to add acoustic panels to my room. I tried a few and made some but didn't really give it a huge effort. Boy was that wrong of me. LOL Now that I have 20+ panels in this room; WOW! Not only is the music that much more amazing but the clarity in vocals in music and movies is astonishing. If I had only followed the advice sooner.

So I played Otis Blue - A Change Gonna Come for my wife on Wednesday before the Panels came in and were installed. Had her come in yesterday and listen to the same track again after all panels were in. She was like its so much smoother; like his voice is so gentle and easy to listen to now. I didn't realize how bright and harsh it was before. I mean to me it was great already. Never would I have thought the panels would change so much in the soundstage.

As for the ART9 cartridge, I reached out to the vendor again yesterday and he said it should be here by July. I'm really excited to go back and listen to my collection again with the ART9. I've also been thinking about getting a third Cart at an even better level then the ART9. My vendor said I should research the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. What do you guys think will sound really good with the Decade? And thinking about a second tonearm. That way it's a simple swap of arms and a turn of the VTA for each Cart if needed.

And again thanks guys for all of the support and advice over the years. I vow to do better at listening and following more advice from you all in the future.
 

Spike

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If you're considering the $2500 price range of the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, you should put the Sound Smith "The Voice" or the Zephyr MIMC Star on your list. In addition to being musical, Sound-Smith will rebuild your cartridges down the line for about $450 (in the case of "The Voice"), and you'll essentially get a cartridge restored to a new condition. I started with Aida, moved up the line to "The Voice" and also got the low-output Zephyr MIMC Star. I am quite happy with the Sound-Smith cartridges.

And thinking about a second tonearm. That way it's a simple swap of arms and a turn of the VTA for each Cart if needed.
Swapping tonearm is not that "simple". You've only had your turntable less than 2 months and you're already thinking about...tone-arms? Now, that's a serious case of GAS if I've ever seen one. Take your time to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your system before embarking on trying to address the short-comings.
 
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