They finally made it!

[DTB300]

There are so many magical combinations out there, you just have to find the one that makes YOU happy.

A great quote that should be a sticky here for everyone to read when asking about what to buy.

Audio is not a simple as buy a tube amp, switch to vinyl, get your player modified, get Class A SS, run a Tube Pre, change to these cables, and it goes on endlessly.

This hobby is so SUBJECTIVE that there is NEVER a definitive answer, just opinions.

 

[tonepub]

Jeff

How easy/difficult did you find it to "dial-in" the CLX position to get the right focus at the sweet spot? Please compare that to the Summit if you can. I'm asking that here because it's a subject of interest to ML owners, not JQP, so I doubt anything will be said in your review.

Actually, I haven't really dialed them in all the way yet. Interestingly enough, the Vantage, Summit and Spire all had their sweet spot within a couple inches of each other, so I started exactly where the Summits were.

I have the inside corner (the curved panel end) about three inches further out from center than the same corner where the Summits were and the front to rear wall distance is the same (about 49") For now this is sounding quite good, but next week when I have more time on the speakers, I am going to have Harvey Gilbert from ML out to see if we can get a little more out of them.

Before Harvey gets out here, I am also going to experiment with them on the short wall of my room too. I suspect this will offer up a bit more bass without the Descent, but we'll see. I really like the open, wide feeling I'm getting from being about 7 feet from the side walls!

 

[DrJRapp]

When I auditioned the CLX this past week one of the things that was clear to me was that the pair was not dialed in properly. The dealer had hosted a ML "event" one or two weeks before and I think they were set up to give as wide a sweet spot as possible but not optimum for one or two listeners. Ther seemed to be a big "hole in the middle" yet the curved part of the panels seemed to be set up with the recommended 1:2 separation to listening distance ratio. Toe seemed to be more than I would have expected, so maybe the focus was happening ahead of the seating area creating the hollow central effect.

 

[MotorToad]

It's listed in amp specs: How much voltage required to drive the amp to full output. The idea is to try to match amp sensitivities so that if you are bi-amping, both amps respond in the same fashion.

We call that "gain." Usually listed in dB or sometimes in a ratio of V/V. You're right, though, it's hugely important for biamping.

 

[Dougster]

"Go get yourself a standard issue stripped Boxster with 16" wheels and spend ten grand on driving school."

I wonder what the High end equivalent of driving school is? System set up? The rest of the system? The practice of santosa (contentment with what one has/is)? A fine selection of music to display the Porcshe's handling or simply to enjoy the musical scenery in beautiful sunlight?

"Dougster"

 

[User211]

As I recall, mr. Colloms (who I have tremendous respect for) rated the 350 the second highest on his list of all the power amplifiers he's yet to review..

If there is one thing I have learnt over the years, if MC likes a certain piece of equipment, I almost certainly won't. If KK likes it, I almost certainly will.

No disrespect to MC, though - he writes a good read. He just seems to have completely different taste to me.

 

[David Matz]

If there is one thing I have learnt over the years, if MC likes a certain piece of equipment, I almost certainly won't. If KK likes it, I almost certainly will.

No disrespect to MC, though - he writes a good read. He just seems to have completely different taste to me.

Justin,

This is a very sound strategy - finding an experienced reviewer and audiophile who has your taste and getting virtually the same equipment as him. However, as you are very aware there are almost no certainties in our subjective and experiential hobby? I'm sure you would not bet your house on this.

As for the CJ 350, I tried a dozen amps at or below its price point. There was nothing even close. The next step up was to double the price point and hear something like the Ayre monoblocks, which was out of the question. Would it be better or different? I am certainly not pushing my taste on you, but I think you should hear it with the Logans in a different environment. If you could come to Chicago, while the exchange rate is still good, theWB is having a regional get together at his house next week. Or you are welcome to come by my house any time.

Best regards,
David

 

[User211]

Hi David,

Thanks for the invite! Very nice of you. We will visit the states again (last time was NYC) and when we do, will try and contact some MLOC members... RMAF 2009 would be cool.

Yeah, who is to say I wouldn't like the 350 with MLs? Until I have heard it, I can't comment. But you can't help but build up pictures in your mind of how it might sound, based on what you have heard before... whether it is right or wrong!

There are some things which MC has reviewed that I have liked. I owned an Audio Synthesis DAX-2 for a while, which was good, though I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as Malcolm seemed to. And I do like Wilson's, which he also thinks are amazing, though I'd never buy a pair.

Regards,

Justin

 

[MotorToad]

When I had the good fortune to spend a day with Hurley Haywood (Winner of 24 hrs of LeMans three times and 24 hrs of Daytona five times) a few years ago and we talked about which Porsche was the best one to buy he said this:

"Go get yourself a standard issue stripped Boxster with 16" wheels and spend ten grand on driving school. If you have any talent at all, you will be able to smoke almost everyone that drives a 911. (He also owns a Porsche dealer in Florida). We get guys that come in here all the time that buy 911's with big spoilers, big wheels, etc and they are all poseurs.

There are about four guys on the face of the Earth that can drive a Porsche 911 to 100% of its capability and you are sitting across the table from one of them. The smart guy buys the Boxster every time."

Somehow I missed this post the first time around. I hate when egos make decisions.

I worked at Barber for a couple of years, and I can't even describe to you how true this is. I have seen a Carrera GT on the track, the driver wandering around lost and confused, being passed by Miatas and worse. Some guy with a 355 Challenge, complete with transporter and a bunch of henchmen to change his tires; slower than an autox-prepared Civic. So many nice track weapons, and so few with the skills to use them. Cars aren't fast, drivers are fast.

Anyway, off topic. Do you like your new speakers?

 

[tonepub]

Somehow I missed this post the first time around. I hate when egos make decisions.

I worked at Barber for a couple of years, and I can't even describe to you how true this is. I have seen a Carrera GT on the track, the driver wandering around lost and confused, being passed by Miatas and worse. Some guy with a 355 Challenge, complete with transporter and a bunch of henchmen to change his tires; slower than an autox-prepared Civic. So many nice track weapons, and so few with the skills to use them. Cars aren't fast, drivers are fast.

Anyway, off topic. Do you like your new speakers?

Loving the speakers...

Yep, when I used to be a member of the PCA in Phoenix, I showed up at an autox with my 944 turbo (probably the worst car to drive around cones with, on the boost/off the boost) and all the guys with the tricked out 911's told me I didn't have a "real" Porsche...

However at the end of the day, I came in 6th out of a pack of 40 and this is NO testament to my mediocre driving skills, all the guys with the fancy cars couldn't drive. The fast laps of the day? All 914's and 914-6's. Those guys were fast....

With cars, hifi, whatever, I'm always looking for the enthusiasm.

 

[MotorToad]

I love the 944 Turbo. I've driven one on the track and, while the lag was... wait for it... considerable, the handling was impressive and the balance was sublime. The car had such impressive torque at, IIRC 3k or 3.5k that one slow corner I decided to leave it in 3rd instead of 2nd to save a shift... what a mistake. I was stuck under the boost and the car felt like it had stalled. The car had some considerable mods on it which I'm sure increased lag and I know it made the bottom end feel weak compared to the top end rush. I was seriously considering the 924S when it came out, but after having driven a friend's 944 that wasn't very well cared for I opted out. It didn't take much "not cared for" to turn that car into a real junker. I think the 914 might be the best-handling street Porsche since the 904, and the 904 was hardly a street car.

The 911 is certainly a great car, but it's great despite its design not because of it, and it's a testament to Porsche's engineering that it's a viable car at all. I laugh when Porsche has floated the idea of a replacement and the "purists" get all bent out of shape. I'm sure they could make a Cayman that'd eat the 430 Ferrari, but their fans all want the UltraBeetle. :ROFL:

On topic: I'm glad you're enjoying the CLXs, I listened to my Sequels yesterday for about two hours. I need an amp, though.

 

[DrJRapp]

Seems a few of us had 944Ts that we raced. Mine was a black 86 that I bought new and drove on the streets in various upgrade forms until dedicating it to club racing in the early 90s. I had the turbo reworked to eliminate most of the lag and up the boost 80%. The results were (as Jeff describes) explosive when you put you foot in it. I nicknamed the car the Starship ..."warp speed scotty". That car is still in play...belongs to an architect that takes it out to the track regularly.

 

[tonepub]

On topic: I'm glad you're enjoying the CLXs, I listened to my Sequels yesterday for about two hours. I need an amp, though.

Here you go, I've got too many amps around here!

 

[slowGEEZR]

...the 911 is certainly a great car, but it's great despite its design not because of it, and it's a testament to Porsche's engineering that it's a viable car at all. I laugh when Porsche has floated the idea of a replacement and the "purists" get all bent out of shape. I'm sure they could make a Cayman that'd eat the 430 Ferrari, but their fans all want the UltraBeetle. :ROFL:

I'm a little biased (Cayman owner ), but I agree. Over on the Cayman site we talk about Porsche keeping the power down on the Cayman so that the 911 "purists" will continue to buy the 911.

 

[tonepub]

my good friend Sam, who takes care of Seinfeld's fleet of about 120 Porsches says the Cayman is the best car they've ever made...

I would agree, but they are all fun!

Again, it's like hifi, everyone enjoys a different ride.

 

[MotorToad]

I'm a little biased (Cayman owner ), but I agree. Over on the Cayman site we talk about Porsche keeping the power down on the Cayman so that the 911 "purists" will continue to buy the 911.

I've often wondered... why not stuff the 3.8 911S engine in the Cayman? The 30 bhp between the base 911 and the CaymanS isn't all that much but a 3.8 is probably worth the effort. 90 bhp plus whatever accidentally falls on the engine when it's out.

Knowing Porsche and their need for modular engineering I'd expect the engine blocks themselves to be "eerily similar," if you know what I mean. Or is this equivalent to putting CLX panels in a CLS? (I'm trying really hard to maintain some tiny link to topic :rocker I really haven't seen much at all on heavily modified Caymans other than RUF stuff in R&T, have you seen anyone doing real development on it?

Oh, tonepub, how long can I use that Nagra? Do you need a shipping address?

 

[tonepub]

I've often wondered... why not stuff the 3.8 911S engine in the Cayman? The 30 bhp between the base 911 and the CaymanS isn't all that much but a 3.8 is probably worth the effort. 90 bhp plus whatever accidentally falls on the engine when it's out.

Knowing Porsche and their need for modular engineering I'd expect the engine blocks themselves to be "eerily similar," if you know what I mean. Or is this equivalent to putting CLX panels in a CLS? (I'm trying really hard to maintain some tiny link to topic :rocker I really haven't seen much at all on heavily modified Caymans other than RUF stuff in R&T, have you seen anyone doing real development on it?

Oh, tonepub, how long can I use that Nagra? Do you need a shipping address?

Paypal me $3800 bucks and you can use it forever...

New ones are $8500, so this is a killer deal. I bought it a little over a year ago, when they cost less and the exchange rate was better. If I had one more room for an all Nagra system, I'd keep it.

 

[abhijit]

I have the current Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 in my living room system and love those. (Monitor 40.1's are on the way for review..) On my desktop, I have a pair of Stirling LS3/5a's powered by an all Nagra system with a ML Grotto i sub.

Also have had my share of ProAc's over the years with excellent results.

I like the big Tannoy's but that doesn't qualify in the "mini monitor" category.

Really, I've been a big fan overall of the British hifi industry...

Thanx for the nice words for Proac. In fact, I am replacing my Summit with Proac D28 and is on the way from England. Hope I wont regret. I opted for Proac D28 for various reasons (Summit was over loading the room, regular maintenance etc ). D28 I belive is amp-friendly so I can drive with low power SE Tube amps and may be a life long proposition. Some people here do not agree but what to do!!!

 

[User211]

Thanx for the nice words for Proac. In fact, I am replacing my Summit with Proac D28 and is on the way from England. Hope I wont regret. I opted for Proac D28 for various reasons (Summit was over loading the room, regular maintenance etc ). D28 I belive is amp-friendly so I can drive with low power SE Tube amps and may be a life long proposition. Some people here do not agree but what to do!!!

Well, I tried, but in your last two posts, you say you have a small room, and the Summits were overloading them - information I never had!

In which case, the D28 will be a great choice, esp. driven by a good SE tube amp. ProAcs love tubes, that's how I used to drive mine. And the designer loves 'em too. Enjoy!

Justin