Looked around - couldn't find it... Spires and Summits - anyone compare the 2? I would think the Summits would go lower.... I see ML discontinued the Summit.... If so - does the Spire sound better - and if not - why would they discontinue the Summit? I know - Marketing and all of that - but really... If someone is willing to pay 8K for a speaker - wouldn't they go 10K?
Spires n Summits
- Thread starter timm
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
Feltran
Well-known member
I haven't seen anyone come out and say either is better, and that's because there seems to not be any easy answer to that. They are very similar. The main differences are the Summit has two woofers where the Spire has one, and the Spire has newer crossover technology. Essentially, this means the Summit has better bass, the Spire has a brighter, clearer midrange, and they're both top notch speakers.
... I've been trying to decide between the two myself. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to hear either.
... I've been trying to decide between the two myself. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to hear either.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
The Summits have not been discontinued.
There is a V2 coming out with the new and improved(?) crossover used in the Spire. We shall see if the V2 is better or not. $2K seems a bit much for a crossover upgrade but what the hell do I know.
The Spire MAY have a cleaner, more transparent midrange. Again, that remains to be seen.
In theory, the Summit should have and probably does have a better defined lower end assuming they are properly set up with the xover volume set correctly, given the fact it has two (2) woofers / amplifiers per speaker versus the one in the Spire.
Less weight / body in the bottom octaves can and will, in some setups, make a transducer sound cleaner and more transparent in the midrange, all other things being equal.
The new list for the V2 Summit is $12K for the basic model.
GG
There is a V2 coming out with the new and improved(?) crossover used in the Spire. We shall see if the V2 is better or not. $2K seems a bit much for a crossover upgrade but what the hell do I know.
The Spire MAY have a cleaner, more transparent midrange. Again, that remains to be seen.
In theory, the Summit should have and probably does have a better defined lower end assuming they are properly set up with the xover volume set correctly, given the fact it has two (2) woofers / amplifiers per speaker versus the one in the Spire.
Less weight / body in the bottom octaves can and will, in some setups, make a transducer sound cleaner and more transparent in the midrange, all other things being equal.
The new list for the V2 Summit is $12K for the basic model.
GG
Bernard
Well-known member
Trying to recoup development costs, no doubt. How much DO they pay that Vojtko guy anyway ?
tonepub
Senior Member
After living with both for a long time now, it's a mixed bag. If I didn't have a Descent, I'd stick with the Summits and give up a little bit of midrange transparency for the extra weight the extra 10" woofer in the summit offers.
I'd also say it would depend on your room and room size. For me, I have a small bump in the room response at 40hz and I can dial it out better using the combination of 25 and 50hz controls on the Summit than I can with just the 35hz control on the Spire.
All things being equal, using both speakers with the Descent, I'm getting a bit more revealing presentation with the Spires.
It's a pretty close call.... Close enough that the Summit with awesome electronics will still sound a lot better than the Spire with only so so electronics.
I'd also say it would depend on your room and room size. For me, I have a small bump in the room response at 40hz and I can dial it out better using the combination of 25 and 50hz controls on the Summit than I can with just the 35hz control on the Spire.
All things being equal, using both speakers with the Descent, I'm getting a bit more revealing presentation with the Spires.
It's a pretty close call.... Close enough that the Summit with awesome electronics will still sound a lot better than the Spire with only so so electronics.
It's a pretty close call.... Close enough that the Summit with awesome electronics will still sound a lot better than the Spire with only so so electronics.[/QUOTE]
that last statement was a little iffy tonepub I respect your opinion a lot but
of course summits will sound better whith better electronics than the spires
heck so would have my vantages a speaker cannot surpass its source correct? what I would like to see if possible is just a little bit bigger panel on the say new summit X that would better justify the extra cost don't you think. beacuse I belive I can buy a descent for the price difference between
the summit and the spire. I would rather have 2 spires and 1 descent than a pair of summits. although I have found I am not a big sub fan unless for movies even then I can do whithout it.
that last statement was a little iffy tonepub I respect your opinion a lot but
of course summits will sound better whith better electronics than the spires
heck so would have my vantages a speaker cannot surpass its source correct? what I would like to see if possible is just a little bit bigger panel on the say new summit X that would better justify the extra cost don't you think. beacuse I belive I can buy a descent for the price difference between
the summit and the spire. I would rather have 2 spires and 1 descent than a pair of summits. although I have found I am not a big sub fan unless for movies even then I can do whithout it.
Last edited:
marck
Well-known member
Hi Gordon,
Do you have any more details as to when this will be available - last I heard was that the new SummitX will not be releases until Jan09 with no planned release date of the upgrade.
Apparently there is an issue with the upgrade - the new SummitX has a larger cabinet and panel and they are not sure how they are going to perofrm the update.
Btw, I think the new SummitX will certainly surpass the Spire, so maybe it is worth holding off on any imminent purchase.
Cheers
Marc.
The Summits are off of the Logan website - as far as I can tell - I would think that is 'discontinued'... In any case -- I have a Odyssey/Descent setup - but I don't use the Descent because of my CD/DVD player... I can not run in 'pure direct' mode in the denon 5900 and play a sub. I have to use a digital x-over in the denon in order to send info out of the sub... I am probably missing something - but, (am I hijacking my own thread here?) if someone knows of a way to get around this - maybe I'll try the descent w/ Odyssey again.
Anyway - I have been seeing very new Summits thru ML dealers for 6700 - which seems like quite a nice price.... I think 2K is too much for a x-over design change....I think it is more of a marketing/pricing issue so as not to compete with the Spire....
tonepub
Senior Member
that last statement was a little iffy tonepub I respect your opinion a lot but
of course summits will sound better whith better electronics than the spires
heck so would have my vantages a speaker cannot surpass its source correct? what I would like to see if possible is just a little bit bigger panel on the say new summit X that would better justify the extra cost don't you think. beacuse I belive I can buy a descent for the price difference between
the summit and the spire. I would rather have 2 spires and 1 descent than a pair of summits. although I have found I am not a big sub fan unless for movies even then I can do whithout it.[/QUOTE]
What exactly are you trying to say here?
What I'm trying to point out is that it really depends on the room
to decide which is the best way to go..
Yes a speaker can't surpass it's source, but after having the Vantage, the Spire and the Summit here (and all three at one time for a little while) is that even the Vantage is capable of resolving enough musical detail and nuance that it was still able to easily hear the small differences between very high performance front end components.
What I've seen often is that someone with a set of Vantages in a small to medium sized room, spend a lot more money to get bigger speakers when they might be surprised at how much more music they would get by upgrading a source, dialing in the setup better or perhaps getting a better amp and/or preamp.
Does that make sense?
What exactly are you trying to say here?
What I'm trying to point out is that it really depends on the room
to decide which is the best way to go..
Yes a speaker can't surpass it's source, but after having the Vantage, the Spire and the Summit here (and all three at one time for a little while) is that even the Vantage is capable of resolving enough musical detail and nuance that it was still able to easily hear the small differences between very high performance front end components.
What I've seen often is that someone with a set of Vantages in a small to medium sized room, spend a lot more money to get bigger speakers when they might be surprised at how much more music they would get by upgrading a source, dialing in the setup better or perhaps getting a better amp and/or preamp.
Does that make sense?[/QUOTE]
I think we may be arguing two separate points.
123acoustic
Member
I think we may be arguing two separate points.[/QUOTE]
I recently upgraded my Sony DVP s9000es CD/SACD player to McIntosh CD/SACD player MCD201>MCD301> and finally MCD500. I didn't believe a good source can make a big different in my system couple years ago. But after took home a McIntosh CD/SACD player as a loaner from my dealer. I was blow away with the sound improvement. It is a totally different level of listen music now in my system. it makes my Summits sound really open up.
Gordon
Well-known member
123, I've been following the buzz at AK on the 500. I've got the 201 that went through the growing pains. While it is not in the budget right now, it is on the scope. I'm a little gun shy after the 201 fiasco and want to wait a bit to see how it pans out. So you really feel it is a worthy upgrade over the 201?
Gordon
I just checked the Martin Logan website and the Summits are still there with the same picture and details as before.
123acoustic
Member
Hi Gordon, The MCD201 is still a great CD/SACD player. If you can take your 201 to your local dealer A/B test with the MCD500. I think you will like the MCD500. Since my last upgraded from MCD301. IMO. it is a well worthy upgrade over the 301. There's another option that you can ask your local McIntosh dealer if they can let you hook up the 201 to their MDA1000. It would be nice if you can A/B test between MCD500 and MCD201/MDA1000 combo.
An
Attachments
You know - you are right... However, I just went to the Products link -> ESL Series - and looked for the link for the Summit. It is not there. However, if you click on the bottom of the page where it has a picture w/ ESL Series - it takes you to another page - and the Summit pic is there...
So, somewhere - somebody decided to take the Summit off - and in other places it is there. Guessing their web developer did not cover his/her tracks...
One further note Neil ... the website for Austrailia -- it is there in all places - the US website was altered.....
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
To Marc and Timm,
Hi guys. Info I have about the Summit X is from this website. Have not confirmed with ML.
What I heard was that the principal difference between the two models is the crossover and that it would be able to be installed in the field and cost $2K.
Was also informed that they stopped making the current version a couple of months ago and will restart manufacturing the X version this month.
Hope that helps.
GG
PS: For me, I'm not that interested until I hear of / read some competent reviews of the before and after. I am quite happy with my setup as it stands at the moment.
Hi guys. Info I have about the Summit X is from this website. Have not confirmed with ML.
What I heard was that the principal difference between the two models is the crossover and that it would be able to be installed in the field and cost $2K.
Was also informed that they stopped making the current version a couple of months ago and will restart manufacturing the X version this month.
Hope that helps.
GG
PS: For me, I'm not that interested until I hear of / read some competent reviews of the before and after. I am quite happy with my setup as it stands at the moment.
