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Speaker Placement - "The Extra Tweak"

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cvj

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When I installed my new Clarity speakers in my living room, I followed the placement suggestion in the User's Manual and settled on a placement some 3 feet from the front wall (the wall in front of my listening position) and 2 feet from the side walls. Great sound with excellent staging.

But never being satisfied, I decided to try "The Extra Tweak" described on page 7 of the ML User Manual. I should have left well enough alone... :(

My living room is 14' 7'' wide and floor to ceiling height is 7'7'' s.

Using the formulas in the manual, I arrived at a distance from the front wall of 4'9'' and 4' from the side walls. That does not seem right..and certainly would not work in my living room.

Have I mis-calculated or did ML screw up on "The Extra Tweak" :confused:
 

roberto

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cvj said:
When I installed my new Clarity speakers in my living room, I followed the placement suggestion in the User's Manual and settled on a placement some 3 feet from the front wall (the wall in front of my listening position) and 2 feet from the side walls. Great sound with excellent staging.

But never being satisfied, I decided to try "The Extra Tweak" described on page 7 of the ML User Manual. I should have left well enough alone... :(

My living room is 14' 7'' wide and floor to ceiling height is 7'7'' s.

Using the formulas in the manual, I arrived at a distance from the front wall of 4'9'' and 4' from the side walls. That does not seem right..and certainly would not work in my living room.

Have I mis-calculated or did ML screw up on "The Extra Tweak" :confused:
Hola...please tell us more of your problem and forget about the formulas...what is the problem with them?...do you like their sound and stage? Do you have any problem with the sound of your great Clarities? The formulas are just a guide and will work in some rooms, and in you case, don't. My recomemdation is, "trust your ears", and choose the position that you like most. Remember to take care with the size of the instruments and the air between them also...if you lay-back them a little bit unscrewing their front spikes,(two to three turns on each spike will do) and the high frequency energy will be enhanced and more open sound will be perhaps in your room...perhaps this might help to get what your are looking for...(please forgive my English spelling)...happy listening,
Pura vida,
Roberto.
 

Anthony A.

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i agree. don't use any formulas for tweaking. they are guidelines only. i would start with 2 feet from the back and side walls and see how the imaging and soundstage is. listen for a few days and then slightly tow them in, 1/2" every couple of days. it is a long process, so take your time. small incremental changes make a huge difference. i know because it took my a few months to get the perfect spot for them. enjoy the process!!!!!! :(
 

DTB300

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Anthony A. said:
1/2" every couple of days.
This is the same way I adjust my speakers...1/2" at a time. Either forward, or backward, toe-in or toe-out. Sit and listen and select which you like better. There is no best way, only what is best for your room and your listening preferences.

Dan
 

Reverb

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Placement of your speakers will very, depending on the acoustics of your room and the interaction of the two. I started with my speakers two feet from the front wall, two feet from the sidewalls, eight feet apart and zero toe in. Then I would listen for a wile, and start moving my ascents around, closer to the fall, closer together, more tow in, less toe in, ETC. until I found what sound best and most enjoyable in my room to my ears.
 
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DJE55

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When you guys are saying two feet from the back wall, I'm I suppose to measure from the panels or the back of the box? I'm hoping the panels, I just don't want my speakers that far out in front of my TV screen.
 

cvj

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roberto said:
Hola...please tell us more of your problem and forget about the formulas...what is the problem with them?...do you like their sound and stage? Do you have any problem with the sound of your great Clarities? The formulas are just a guide and will work in some rooms, and in you case, don't. My recomemdation is, "trust your ears", and choose the position that you like most. Remember to take care with the size of the instruments and the air between them also...if you lay-back them a little bit unscrewing their front spikes,(two to three turns on each spike will do) and the high frequency energy will be enhanced and more open sound will be perhaps in your room...perhaps this might help to get what your are looking for...(please forgive my English spelling)...happy listening,
Pura vida,
Roberto.
Sorry - I don't have any problem with the speakers or the way they sound - my point was that the formulas in the User's Manual DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE..and perhaps ML should delete that section at the next reprint. OK? :rolleyes:
 

roberto

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cvj said:
Sorry - I don't have any problem with the speakers or the way they sound - my point was that the formulas in the User's Manual DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE..and perhaps ML should delete that section at the next reprint. OK? :rolleyes:
Hola...it depends a lot of your room...in some rooms the formula did work, that is why the formula is at the instruction's book. But, in general way of speaking, trust your ears, and not in specs...happy listening, welcome to the club...
Pura vida,
Roberto.
 

attyonline

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How can you know it makes no sense if you did not try it? It is sometimes recommended that dipole speakers be placed half way between the front and rear walls. Years ago I tried this with a pair of Magnepans and the sound quality was incredible, with front to back layers of depth like the real thing. Did not work for me due to my small room and unhappy wife :) , but if sound was the only criteria I could easily listen to this setup forever. BTW, if Gayle Sanders saw fit to recommend this tweak for consideration, I am confident he knows a lot more about the optimum placement of his speakers than you, me or anyone on this forum. If it does not work for you for aesthetic reasons, thats one thing, but I assure you it would not be in a ML manual if it did not work damn well for a lot of users. :)
 
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dyazdani

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DJE55 said:
When you guys are saying two feet from the back wall, I'm I suppose to measure from the panels or the back of the box? I'm hoping the panels, I just don't want my speakers that far out in front of my TV screen.
If your TV screen is between your speakers, you might as well forget about the placement tweaks! That is not an optimal situation, I would recommend your speakers be as far out in front of your TV as possible, probably 2ft at a minimum.
 

Reverb

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dyazdani said:
If your TV screen is between your speakers, you might as well forget about the placement tweaks!
That’s a harsh thing to say. :p
Too me having a TV in-between your speaker’s means your placement is more critical then have nothing in-between them. I found if my Ascents were placed farther back then the TV my sound stage would be very narrow. If I brought them out even with the TV the sound stage would be more open, the real trick was pulling them at least 6” out from the TV and the sound stage became huge and very 3D like.
 
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dyazdani

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Zip3kx07 said:
That’s a harsh thing to say.:p
The truth hurts sometimes :)

It's not that it will sound BAD, but it is certainly a sizeable drawback having something between the speakers.

One way to help it is to put something absorbant in front of the screen for serious 2ch listening.
 

tonyc

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cvj, those numbers sound similar to an alternative placement suggested on the Cardas website. I think you should try it if you haven't already. There are always trade offs with changes in placement. Do not discount it because it seems bizarre. This hobby IS bizarre! Enjoy.
 

jfm

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DJE55 said:
When you guys are saying two feet from the back wall, I'm I suppose to measure from the panels or the back of the box?
Always measure from the panel.
 

kwr

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cvj said:
When I installed my new Clarity speakers in my living room, I followed the placement suggestion in the User's Manual and settled on a placement some 3 feet from the front wall (the wall in front of my listening position) and 2 feet from the side walls. Great sound with excellent staging.

But never being satisfied, I decided to try "The Extra Tweak" described on page 7 of the ML User Manual. I should have left well enough alone... :(

My living room is 14' 7'' wide and floor to ceiling height is 7'7'' s.

Using the formulas in the manual, I arrived at a distance from the front wall of 4'9'' and 4' from the side walls. That does not seem right..and certainly would not work in my living room.

Have I mis-calculated or did ML screw up on "The Extra Tweak" :confused:
You have not screwed up. This is speaker placement according to Cardas and the use of the Golden Ratio

The Golden Ratio (1.61803398874984.....) on to seeming infinity(that's a big number) has been deified and Cardas has been utterly brilliant in their utilisation of this historically and artistically resonant ratio to place their cables and speaker placement plan with the pyramids of Cheops and the Parthenon, albeit incorrectly.

"A straight line is said to have been cut in extreme and mean ratio when,as the whole line is to the greater segment,so is the greater to the lesser." Euclid

There is the proviso that your room is rectangular to utilise this ratio. It is only a starting point and I think a lot of people are startled by the depth of the soundstage when the speakers are positioned well off the front wall. In your room it is probably not worthwhile as you have ended up with front/side distances that are pretty similar which usually does not work.


I got interested in this ratio soon after trying the Cardas method for speaker placement. Didn't improve on what we already achieved by ear.

Book that appealed to me most as a non mathmetician
The Golden Ratio - The story of phi,the extraordinary number of nature,art and beauty. Mario Livio Review ISBN 0 7472 4987 3

Kevin
 

soloracer951

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Everyone talks about changing the positioning of the speakers but what about the listening position? If speaker placement is constrained does it help to change the placement of the most common listening position?
 

kwr

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Listening position - absolutely.

Same considerations as speakers - off wall, away from room boundaries. Personally prefer diffusion and reasonably dead wall behind listening position.

Kevin
 

twich54

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soloracer951 said:
Everyone talks about changing the positioning of the speakers but what about the listening position? If speaker placement is constrained does it help to change the placement of the most common listening position?
For every position / placement of your speakers in turn will yield the "sweet spot" for listening. As with any di-pole their rear and side interaction with the room and surronding equipment is critical. It's amazing to see systems that have given the "TV" the priority and speaker placement becomes more of an after thought. That might work for some 5.1, but certinally NOT for two channel !!
 
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DJE55

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dyazdani said:
The truth hurts sometimes :)

It's not that it will sound BAD, but it is certainly a sizeable drawback having something between the speakers.

One way to help it is to put something absorbant in front of the screen for serious 2ch listening.
Thanks for the info guys. It's a projector screen, not TV. Sorry for not explaining myself.
 
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