Sold the Dell laptop and want a MacBook.. any advice?

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I don't have a Mac (although I do use UNIX exclusively, so no WIndoze here!), but I can tell you that once you get used to it, there'll be no turning back! No more worrying about viruses, no more performance-sapping anti-virus software, and so on.

If a 13" screen is big enough for you, I say go for it (though I'd advise a bigger screen if your budget allows for it).

Don't forget to download [url="www.openoffice.org]OpenOffice 3.x[/url] so that your documentation needs are covered. It's free, standard, and open source!

Seems like RichTeer doesn't like Billy G & Co. I have noticed a few anarchic tendencies in his earlier posts:)

Actually, I wish I could get a contract doing s/w development on a Mac, so I can delve deep inside and see what is really going on in that world. Alas, it never happens...
 
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Seems like RichTeer doesn't like Billy G & Co. I have noticed a few anarchic tendencies in his earlier posts:)

Am I that obvious? :)

This isn't the right place for computer-speak, but suffice to say my loathing of all things Microsoft knows almost no bounds. IMHO, no company has done more to lower people's expectations of computers than MS, and their abuse of their desktop monopoly is sickening.
 
Am I that obvious? :)

This isn't the right place for computer-speak, but suffice to say my loathing of all things Microsoft knows almost no bounds. IMHO, no company has done more to lower people's expectations of computers than MS, and their abuse of their desktop monopoly is sickening.


Worked for a comms company a few years ago. I have never met such a bunch of MS hating guys in my life. Then I used HP's HP-UX there for a good while, remembered how truly backward it was, watched Netscape crash every 5-10 minutes of browsing, and just wasn't convinced by their arguments in the least.

The current Macs look ace, however. But without having a good look at a recent one, I am not qualified to comment...

Anyway RichTeer - let's leave it at that, or we'll go on forever...:devil:
 
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Tom,

Have a few beers and then play around with Photo Booth and GarageBand. Both are included on the Mac and are lots of fun to goof around with.
 
TomDac,

Welcome to the Mac club. You will NOT regret this decision. I agree with Rich, and stand with him in disagreeing with "amey01" on almost everything she said. Having been an Apple guy since the Apple II+ days (I've been a Mac user since they were called "Lisa"), and having been involved in using, installing, supporting, and maintaining large corporate networks for over 20 years, I can say without hesitation that the "extra cost" fo rMac computers is a myth. They cost more off the shelf, but over the usable lifespan of the computer (which on average, is 3 times longer than the average usable lifespan of a PC), the cost more than evens out. Between longer lifespan, fewer maintenance issues, and almost zero motherboard-related failures, every Apple product I've ever owned (and I've owned almost a dozen over the years) has been nothing but a joy from the day I plugged it in.

Sorry I got in on this discussion late. I would have had several suggestions to make. First, if you are buying the MacBook new from a dealer, max out the memory from the dealer. (If you install the memory yourself, you WILL save a lot of money, but the warranty on your memory slots will be voided, AND if you have any issues with the SIMMS, you'll have to take it up with the people you bought them from--it's easier to pay Apple and get it right the first time!) Second, get the biggest screen you can afford. I have a MacBook Pro 17", and I just can't use a smaller laptop anymore. Third, get a big external HD, and back up your laptop's HD frequently. Laptops get a lot of abuse, even if you are careful, and losing all your data due to a HD failure (which is rare with Macs, but it does happen) is a HUGE pain in the butt. Spend the $2-300 and get a 1Tb external HD, and back up your laptop every week or two.

And the most important thing for a laptop, IMO, is good physical protection. Get a nice hard-shell case like from Speck. They are made well, and will keep your aluminum shell looking new. I don't have one, but I bought one for the MacBook Pro 15" I bought for my stepdaughter last year. Also, you need a good shoulderbag for transporting it. I'm partial to the Wenger cases because they have great padding, lots of pockets, and a VERY protective suspension system. I also purchased a screen protector cloth and a cloth slipcover for my Mac from RadTech.

Again, welcome to the Mac fold. Now, you need to run out and get an Apple Airport Express, and connect it to your DAC with a good (preferably glass) TOSLINK cable, so you can stream your iTunes music (Ripped in Apple Lossless of course!) into your system wirelessly!!!

Martin Logans and Apple go together like melted chocolate and fresh strawberries... :banana:

--Richard
 
"amey01" on almost everything she said.

"He" - sorry to be pedantic......

(which on average, is 3 times longer

huh? How do you get this? With the Intel processors, they effectively ARE PCs now (as stated earlier) - albeit damned expensive PCs wrapped in pretty plastic. How possibly could they last longer - let alone three times longer?

The reason I said they don't last as long / had planned obsolesence built in was more to do with Apple as a company rather than the components of their equipment. Case in point, the iPod. Just look at the thing - the shiny chrome back is clearly designed to look old and tatty in short period of time, making people want "new ones" very quickly. The built in battery is clearly designed to give the product a finite lifespan. Apple doesn't want users changing out batteries, they want them to buy a new one. It's unethical, bad for the environment and makes me mad! Granted - almost every technology company is the same, just Apple (my opinion only) are worse than the rest.
 
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got the MacBook 2 days after I ordered it. I must say that it's really nice.. still messing with it, etc.. it's very easy to use.. i wish i would've sprung for the model with the lighted keyboard, however...
 
I think I will go that way one day I hate vista it really stinks.

my dad uses a notebook with some form or bundle of Linux on it and it is really nice.
 
I LOVE my Macs... Yea, I am a big Fan boy when it comes to Mac stuff! I am on my iMac 24" right now. My wife has MacBook Pro 15.3", and we also have a G5 with 23" LCD that gets a pretty good bit of use and a G4 and iBook 366MHz that get little use and a 15+ year old Performa 3600 that still works but sees NO USE!

Love your Mac and it will love you back. If you live near an Apple store BE SURE to sign up for some of their free classes or pay a few bucks and do a one on one teaching gig to REALLY learn how to use that bad boy. If you have any problems get it up to the Genius bar for FREE!!! Very nice deal that!

Welcome to the Mac club!
 
The reason I said they don't last as long / had planned obsolesence built in was more to do with Apple as a company rather than the components of their equipment. Case in point, the iPod. Just look at the thing - the shiny chrome back is clearly designed to look old and tatty in short period of time, making people want "new ones" very quickly. The built in battery is clearly designed to give the product a finite lifespan. Apple doesn't want users changing out batteries, they want them to buy a new one. It's unethical, bad for the environment and makes me mad! Granted - almost every technology company is the same, just Apple (my opinion only) are worse than the rest.

Sorry, Amey. But you are just wrong. I still use my original iPod that I got when they first came out and it works great. What is that? . . . like maybe six or seven years of use! Sure it looks a little roughed up. But I don't care about that. If I did, I would have bought a protective case. If I ever need to change the battery, I can send it back to Apple and they will replace the entire iPod for a service charge. I can get the battery for my iPhone replaced at any Apple store. Not that I have ever needed to resort to either, because the batteries have worked fine for my needs.

I have also used my iMac now for longer than I used each of my last three PC's before needing to upgrade, and I really don't need to upgrade it anytime soon. Mac's hardware and software is designed to last longer than PC's and Windows. Just look at the number of people downgrading from Vista to XP. Microsoft tried to phase out support for XP but people rebelled. Now Vista hasn't been around very long at all and they are already coming out with the next generation. How long do you think they will support the XP users after that? And do you think those XP users will be able to run the new software on their old machines? Probably most won't. Compare satisfaction rates of PC users with Vista to Mac users with Leopard, and you get a good idea of the difference between these two companies.

Let me give you another example on the hardware side. I bought a pair of top of the line Sony Vaio PC Laptops, one for me and one for the wife. Within two years they were both nonfunctional because of a foolish design flaw. The power cord adapter, which foolishly is soldered straight to the motherboard, broke off from normal use. This could not be repaired without replacing the entire motherboard! With Apple's magsafe adapter, this will never again be a problem for me on a laptop. That was a rather expensive lesson, but is just another example of why it is worth the extra money to pay for the better-designed macs.

On the software side of things, my PC would get slower and slower with every software update I did running XP. Upgrading to Leopard on my Mac was like a breath of fresh air. It was a smooth, seamless upgrade, and it seems like with every update Apple makes to the software, I get speed and performance improvements. It really is like night and day between these two companies. And I am speaking from the perspective of someone who started using PC's / Microsoft with DOS and Wordstar (circa. early to mid eighties) and only switched to Mac a few years ago. Seems like every other release of Windows is a disaster. And every new release from Apple just brings new exciting things to the table.
 
amey01,

Rich is just plain right, and I'll side with him just about every trip of the train on this issue. I'll gladly admit that we both have "drunk the Mac kool-aid" but, hey, it tastes good, makes our lives easier, costs less in the long run, and doesn't give us "blue-screen migraines"... :p

I used to do install/maintenance/user support on mixed networks, and did it professionally for about 10 years. I worked for a mid-sized "beltway bandit" government contractor in the DC area in the '90's, and we had about 700 computers on--site, about 100 of which were Macs. We had 2 people who did support for the Macs--both of us were part-time support because we actually spent most of our time as production designers in the Graphics department. For the PC side of the network, NOT COUNTING our server farm admins, we had a full-time support staff of 45 PC techs. Full time. All they did was field calls, fix machines, re-install system software, and load drivers. And they had, on average, the highest "overtime" hours of any division in our entire company. When you figured out how many machines each tech support person supported, based on actual billable hours, the Mac techs supported about 105 computers per person, whereas the PC techs supported about 10 machines per tech. Ten times the support, and you didn't even get any other services from the PC guys, whereas the Mac techs actually spent most of their time doing other things which actually contributed to the income of the company, rather than presenting an operational liability.

I once did a white paper for our Board of Directors, and showed, conclusively, that if our entire company changed to Macs, even if we counted in the cost of buying all new computers and software, and re-training everyone to use the Mac OS, and converting and reconciling all our legacy data, it would actually SAVE our company over $1.2 million over the next 36 months, based on the massive reduction in support staff, the near elimination of OS-based downtime, and the greatly reduced time and effort spent on system updated, driver-chasing, and general system mis-behaviour. When our IT director got wind of my paper, he actually tried to get me fired because he said such an idea was a threat to the competitivity of our company in the marketplace". What he REALLY meant, once you got past the Orwellian double-speak of his memo, was that such an idea was a threat to his little technocratic fiefdom, and would put a bunch of his buddies on the street. Needless to say, this WAS a corporation, and in the end, the short-term bottom line won out. 10 years later, that company has been bought out by a large military-industrial monolith, and much of their IT department has been outsourced off-shore, and their whole server farm has been ported over to Linux boxes. Meanwhile, I'm still working with a Mac.

Windows is, I'm convinced, a highly unethical fiscal conspiracy perpetrated by Micro$oft, and it is being made intentionally buggy and crash-prone because Micro$oft decided a LONG time ago that they could make a LOT more money selling "user support" and "MCSE certifications" to stressed-out IT managers than they could by selling software that just worked as advertised.

Before I got my MacBook Pro in the fall of 2006, my last Mac was a Power Macintosh 9500. It was built in the fall of 1995, but I purchased it used in the summer of 1999. I ran that machine until the (non-factory) HD failed in the summer of 2005. At that time, it was running OS 9, and the then-current version of PageMaker, Quark, and Photoshop without a flaw. That is 10 years of flawless service, and it went through 3 MAJOR upgrades to the OS in that time. I bought it with System 7.5, upgraded it to System 8, then to System 9.2.4. The last 3 years I owned it, it ran almost non-stop, 24/7 because it was running SETI At Home in the background. I think I had to re-start it forcibly maybe once every 3 months or so, and usually that was because I was also running a big Photoshop file, and had a browser open, and was running Quark all at the same time, and it would just get over-burdened.

You can't even launch a Windows 2000 install CD on a 10-year-old PC, let alone get it to run with any sort of reliability. And THAT is what I'm talking about when it comes to long-term lifespan.

The new Macs use Intel processors, but they run a Unix core as their OS. Unlike Windows, the Mac OS is built from the ground up to be 1) networked, 2) run a GUI, and 3) interface smoothly with peripherals. What a lot of people--IT "gurus" included--don't seem to understand is that EVERY version of Windows until Vista was running a version of DOS as it's core, and ALL the slick Mac-like functionality--networking, GUI, file-sharing, etc--ALL that stuff is made possible by an impossibly convoluted patchwork of kludges, patches, and what amounts to the programmers version of rolls and rolls of coded duct-tape.

I've written OS's in assembly, C, and Pascal--I know what I'm talking about here. Bill Gates was a mediocre programmer, and his greatest talent is conning people into giving him money. His major innovative contribution to the computer industry was to design a business model based NOT on good coding, innovative interfaces, or ground-breaking technology, but rather by selling support services for a series of intentionally-defective products. He should be brought up on fraud charges, not lauded as some sort of tech guru. Everything Bill Gates and Micro$ost has ever done has been based on stolen ideas that they then tried to claim were their own. Even his first "product", DOS, was stolen from a professor at his college--it was part of an OS-design course, and he took it as "academic freeware", repackaged it and sold it to IBM.

Any technology that costs a company more to support than it's use generates in revenue is an evil and unethical product, and a treasonous fraud perpetrated on this once-great nation, and it's proponents should be rooted out and exposed for the parasitic drains on our economy that they are...

And if you want to know how I REALLY feel about Windoze as a tech-support person, a network designer, a professional end-user, and a consumer, I'll gladly tell you in another post... ;)
 
I agree with a *LOT* of what you and Rich say, but this is where it all comes unstuck:

support on mixed networks,

This is the crux of the issue - if you use Macs, then you need "Mixed" because there are things that Macs can't do. Why complicate things by running "mixed" when you can run only one system? There's just no point.

a highly unethical fiscal conspiracy perpetrated by Micro$oft

Fully agree there - it's just Apple is too......talking to self-confessed Apple "fanboys", you'd think they were a charity!




Rich said:
only switched to Mac a few years ago.

This may be another area in which I'm not as relevant. All my Mac experience was 5+ years ago.
 
This is the crux of the issue - if you use Macs, then you need "Mixed" because there are things that Macs can't do. Why complicate things by running "mixed" when you can run only one system? There's just no point.

What is it exactly that Macs can't do? Now with the intel-based processors and Leopard, you can run Windows seamlessly on a Mac if you really want to, so any program you can run on a PC you can run on a Mac. So tell me again, what is it exactly that Macs can't do?

I think this is where your lack of recent experience with Macs comes into coloring your judgment. This may have been a problem before, but it is no longer a problem. Again, this is just another example of Apple working to make things better for the end user, rather than worse. When do you think Microsoft will design their computers so that you can run Apple software on them? Apple saw an issue . . . and they fixed it. This is pretty common with them.

I agree with you, though, that there is just no need to run a mixed network. My wife and I have both systems running on our home network, and neither one of us have fired up our PC's more than twice since we got our Macs (and that was just to play some games that were installed on the PC's). There is just no need and no desire to use the Windows-based systems (and these were top-of-the-line desktops we purchased just about three or four years ago.

As for the business end of things, I have worked in several County District Attorney offices that used Windows networks, and the tech support staff was constantly overwhelmed with issues. I admit, I have no experience with a Mac-based office to compare to, but I wouldn't wish the Windows experience on any tech support person. I was there when one such office transitioned to Windows '95, and it was a nightmare. I can't imagine what the transition to Vista was like for these guys.
 
OK, just one more comment and I will stop hammering on this topic. The thing about Apple that is worth paying the extra money for is their innovation in software and hardware design.

Who gave the masses an innovative GUI-based operating system? Apple. Who copied it and offered up a cheap imitation? Microsoft. Likewise, who took the concept of an MP3 player and revolutionized the way we store, carry, and listen to music? Apple. The iPod became so popular that it became the generic name for an MP3 player. Who copied it and came late to the party with a cheap imitation? Microsoft. Who took the concept of a cell phone / smart phone and revolutionized the interface with a touch screen? Apple. Who copied it with cheap imitation? Well, in this case, RIM. But you had better believe Microsoft will be late to the party with an even cheaper imitation.

Given the above, and literally thousands of smaller examples like them, I cannot understand how anyone could be a fan of Microsoft and not a fan of Apple. It is Apple that is leading the way for consumers and providing innovative products that just simply work. Microsoft is merely riding their coat-tails and providing inferior products after the fact. This has been their business model for over thirty years now. There simply is no comparison between the two where Microsoft comes out better from a consumer standpoint, except initial price of components.
 
Windows is, I'm convinced, a highly unethical fiscal conspiracy perpetrated by Micro$oft, and it is being made intentionally buggy and crash-prone because Micro$oft decided a LONG time ago that they could make a LOT more money selling "user support" and "MCSE certifications" to stressed-out IT managers than they could by selling software that just worked as advertised.

Highly agreed. Given the financial and technical resources at Microsoft's disposal, the fact that Windoze is the crock of shite it is speaks volumes.
 
Everything Bill Gates and Micro$ost has ever done has been based on stolen ideas that they then tried to claim were their own. Even his first "product", DOS, was stolen from a professor at his college--it was part of an OS-design course, and he took it as "academic freeware", repackaged it and sold it to IBM.

I hate M$ as much as (if not more than) you, but let's not rewrite history.

DOS was originally QDOS (short for Quick and Dirty Operating Systems), published by Seattle Computer Products. Microsoft bought the rights to QDOS from SCP for $50K, polished a turd, and sold it to IBM.

But I think you're pretty much right about M$ not having any original ideas.
 
I'M NOT A FAN OF MICROSOFT by any means - my only point is that it is better to use a defacto standard (which just happens to be Windows) rather than something more niche.

As much as I hate Microsoft as anyone, you've got to give them credit for creating an industry standard which no ISO groups/conglomerates with all their government support have been able to do.

What is it exactly that Macs can't do?

As above, Windows is the standard. Several reasons switching to a universal standard made things much easier were:

** Ability to run all software. An example was a X-Terminal GUI emulator that was Windows only - everyone on Macs was stuck with a text-based interface to that system until they were upgraded to PCs. I'm sure "Bootcamp" or whatever has changed this, but how seamless is it? We used to run "Virtual PC", but it was so slow and clunky there was no point - it was much easier to say "if you need a PC, get a PC."
** Another example was connecting to the SSL VPN was not possible from Macintosh systems, so all our Mac laptops couldn't be used as remote systems any more when we removed the dial-up system!
** Management of systems with Group Policy
** Much wider selection of hardware available. Eg. Any printer will work with Windows, wereas we had to actually seek printers out that were Mac compatible.
** Streamlined network - everything on the network became standard - we had a Novell server (no, I'm not a fan of Novell either) that kept crashing when we tried to swtich on "Services for Macintosh".

There are many more, but let's just agree to disagree. We're obviously both happy using what we're using..
 
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Amey,

I understand that you don't particularly like Microsoft, but feel that it is the standard and that because of that using Macs creates problems for folks that are dependent in some way on the "standard." But you need to understand that you are going on information that is several years old, which is a lifetime in this industry. Macs run Windows seamlessly now. Likewise, all of the other issues you list that you had are just not issues any more. I am just saying you might want to familiarize yourself with the present state of things before you go off recommending to someone not to buy a Mac based on your prior experience.

As you say, we can agree to disagree.
 
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