sequel II ... need amp help

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

J

Jinx

Guest
ok. i am currently running my new to me sequel ii's with an old sansui b3000 amp. the amp cuts out after some play at high volumes, then comes back on. i am thinking i need an amp with more power, but my question is...will an amp with more power make these speakers sound better? and...will they be LOUDER with more power?

also, how do you make an amp run in 4 ohms, as opposed to 8 ohms? is there just a switch on the amp or something? is it better to run in 4 ohms? i'm in need of some real help here. i'm new to ESL's and i love the sound, but i need more volume and more power. please help me out? thanks
 

TomDac

former MLO owner/operator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
3,634
Reaction score
26
Location
Rancho Mirage, California
Hey Jinx,

Your Sansui b3000 @ 110 Watts per channel definitely isn't the best amp to drive your Sequels at a high volume level.

An amp can either drive a 4 ohm load or it can't.

A high current amp will indeed make your speakers louder and you'll be amazed at what clarity you will hear. Of course the cables you run from your amp to your Logans will also have a great impact on what you'll hear.

I have no idea what kind of budget you'll be working with, but I had a pair of Sequels for a long time and drove them with a Denon POA-1500 from the mid 80s. It was 150 watts per channel and drove them very nicely. IMHO, the older Denon power amps were nice.... You can find them on Audiogon and ebay all the time.


I'm sure others will chime in as there are MANY good amps on the used market that will make your Sequels sound fantastic.

good luck and welcome!

Tom.
 
J

Jinx

Guest
well,...after listening to these sequel II's for the past few days, i just can't believe it could get much better than this...but then again..i had NO idea it would be this good to begin with. do you know..is my sansui b3000 able to be bridged? ican't figure it out and i don't wanna blow it. as for amps..sounds good. i'm gonna get a new more powerful one soon!

i can believe that newer martin logans could sound much better than these sequels, although i'm sure they do. i'm just amazed...flabbergasted is the right word i'd say. i have ALWAYS wanted a pair of ML's and now that I have them...there's no going back.

oh ya, and i don't find the positioning to be that big of a deal either. they don't quick "rock" for hard rock music, but at lower volumes the clarity is incredible!!! and the vocals...horns (trumpet etc) and especially female vocals (such as sinead o'connor) are just amazing. i'm speechless honestly!!!

what is the best center to match with these sequel ii's? the cinema? the logos? also, would i be OK with traditional speakers for my rears and rear center? or is ALL ML's a MUST for a correct home theater setup? TIA

Michael
 

DTB300

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
0
Location
Fallout 3 Land
i can believe that newer martin logans could sound much better than these sequels, although i'm sure they do.
There are many of us here that started out with Sequel's thinking the same as you are. Most of us now own better models of ML's!!! But the Sequels are very nice sounding. Welcome!!! For me, when I purchased my CLSIIz's, my Sequel's became my Surround Speakers.

Tom is right. Find a better amp, and you will get that next goose bump level of sound. Best thing to do is find some for auditioning at your local dealer and bring them hoe for listening to see what you think. You like it, then buy it!!! Simple.

Dan
 

TomDac

former MLO owner/operator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
3,634
Reaction score
26
Location
Rancho Mirage, California
Positioning is a huge factor with any dipole speaker including your Sequels. You have either gotten super lucky and placed them perfectly or it's something that you have yet to discover.

You'll know you have them dialed in when the speakers "disappear" and you cannot tell where the music is coming from and the soundstage starts to take shape, meaning you can hear the drummer in one place, the vocalist in another, etc. like the artists are in your living room.

Tell us about where they're positioned and the room they're in.
 

Peter Hogan

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
295
Reaction score
1
Location
Fitchburg, MA
OK. I am currently running my new to me sequel ii's with an old sansui b3000 amp. the amp cuts out after some play at high volumes, then comes back on.

...

Well,...after listening to these sequel II's for the past few days, I just can't believe it could get much better than this...but then again..I had NO idea it would be this good to begin with. Do you know..is my Sansui b3000 able to be bridged? I can't figure it out and i don't wanna blow it. As for amps..sounds good. I'm gonna get a new more powerful one soon!

TIA

Michael
Hi,
A stereo amp, when bridged, becomes a mono amp.

If your amp cuts out at higher volumes now, that indicates it is marginal for powering the present speakers, and bridging it (if possible) would NOT be recommended.

Bridging an amp increases the output power, but since the two amps are now driving both leads of the speaker in opposite polarity, each amp 'sees' one half the speaker impedance....When bridged, a 4 ohm speaker would look like a 2 ohm speaker to each of the two amps, not a good idea for an amp that is already cutting out at 4 ohms.

Peter
 

Tube60

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
489
Reaction score
0
Location
Chatsworth, Ca
You'll know you have them dialed in when the speakers "disappear" and you cannot tell where the music is coming from and the soundstage starts to take shape, meaning you can hear the drummer in one place, the vocalist in another, etc. like the artists are in your living room.
Pah! That's the easy stuff. Wait 'till you can follow a pianist's fingers up and down the keys, which can often be a front to back image; or the same thing with a harpist; or when the singer is shifting around the microphone, and which particular drum the drummer is working from. Then you'll really know about imaging!:rocker::D
 

amey01

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
5,138
Reaction score
77
Location
Queensland, Australia
ok. i am currently running my new to me sequel ii's with an old sansui b3000 amp. the amp cuts out after some play at high volumes, then comes back on. i am thinking i need an amp with more power, but my question is...will an amp with more power make these speakers sound better? and...will they be LOUDER with more power?

also, how do you make an amp run in 4 ohms, as opposed to 8 ohms? is there just a switch on the amp or something? is it better to run in 4 ohms? i'm in need of some real help here. i'm new to ESL's and i love the sound, but i need more volume and more power. please help me out? thanks
You don't need more power so much as a better quality amp. Sure, ESLs soak up amplifier power quite amazingly, but more power does very little for absolute sound level due to the logarithmic nature of hearing. It's more important to have an amplifier that is stable into a low impedance and is capable of high current delivery. Panels sometimes drop below 1 ohm at certain frequencies. Listen to all the amps in your budget and buy what sounds best to you. One thing you can look for is an amp that is capable of delivering twice its rated power at 8 ohms into 4 ohms - that is usually a pretty good indicator to a stable amp.
 

Tube60

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
489
Reaction score
0
Location
Chatsworth, Ca
You don't need more power so much as a better quality amp. Sure, ESLs soak up amplifier power quite amazingly, but more power does very little for absolute sound level due to the logarithmic nature of hearing. It's more important to have an amplifier that is stable into a low impedance and is capable of high current delivery. Panels sometimes drop below 1 ohm at certain frequencies. Listen to all the amps in your budget and buy what sounds best to you. One thing you can look for is an amp that is capable of delivering twice its rated power at 8 ohms into 4 ohms - that is usually a pretty good indicator to a stable amp.
Absolutely great advice!
I would doubt that mfrs would advertise how many DBs of headroom a given design has, which directly correlates to the above-mentioned current delivery capacity, but it's pretty easy to figure out during listening tests, and carefully studying specs on the amp. Is it stable to 2-ohm loads? Can it be used with 4-ohm speakers? If yes to those, the amp probably has a good amount of headroom and therefore the abiltity to deliver high current loads, over both quick transients and longer durations than that.
As an example, my Citation II that I like to brag about :)rolleyes: ) is "only" rated at 60 watts/channel, but it's got such an overkill on it's power supply, and the circuit itself is so stable, it has no trouble driving MLs to good volume levels. Oftentimes, it's not always the specifications that are important, it's the listening session, particularly when the amp is being worked hard, that will give an amp the nod! My amp's owner's manual states: "Stable into any conceivable load, guaranteed unconditionally." I'd say they were pretty confident about that design! If you see something like that in the spec sheet on whatever amp you audition, pay close attention to that!
 

cyclone

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
138
Reaction score
0
I have owned Sequel II's for quite a while now and for me at least I wouldn't trade them for any other ML's I've heard. I purchased a set of Requests and sold them I preferred the Sequels, I just heard the Summits and wasn't that impressed. I think especially considering what you can pick up a pair for the Sequel II's are a fantastic value.
As far as a amp goes I think a great used amplifier value would be a Classe 200 or 201 you can pick one up on audiogon for around $1400 give or take a $100 or two.
 

JonFo

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
4,307
Reaction score
154
Location
Big Canoe, GA
When I first got my Sequels, I used an Adcom GFA-555 II, a 200wpc amp with reasonable specs and beffy power supply. But it didn't really do the Sequels justice, so I got a Sunfre amp, and the improvement was night and day.

Do as indicated, look for an amp that doubles its power into 4 ohms, and advertsies low-impeadance support (and high current numbers).

A used Sunfire Stereo can easily be found for under a grand.
 

cyclone

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
138
Reaction score
0
It might interest you that there is a Classe 200 for sale on Audiogon now for $975 it looks to be in nice shape. 200 watts at 8 ohms 400 watts at 4 ohms.
 

Charliemike

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
390
Reaction score
1
It might interest you that there is a Classe 200 for sale on Audiogon now for $975 it looks to be in nice shape. 200 watts at 8 ohms 400 watts at 4 ohms.
Basically, this amp (200W into 8ohm) can't stand low impedance load. The new buyer, who got himself an Martin Logan CL2, simply *toasted* this amp EVEN WHEN CLASSE TECH SUPPORT SAYS CA200 HAS ALL KINDS OF PROTECTION CIRCUITY. Of course, even Classe tech support is superb professional and courteous in fixing the amp AT MY EXPENSE (not very expensive, but it's $$$$$ anyway), they refused to put thus shortcoming in writing. So I ended up having the buyer accused me of selling lemon, demanded (and got) full refund from me (because I can't prove in writing that it's his speaker's problem), and I puked out $500 + shipping to fix it and then have to sell it like dirt due to its service record.
From a buyer's experience ... FWIW
 
Top