New ML owner (ESL X) Amp Questions

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Hi! I am a proud new Martin Logan ESL X owner. With the MLs, I got an NAD C399 integrated stereo amp, and I have installed both, bi-wiring the MLs to the NAD. I am using the NAD BluOS and Sonos as my sources, each driving FLAC files from my home audio server over gigabit Ethernet.

Having auditioned the setup, I am hoping I didn’t make a mistake with the NAD. In order to get the MLs to “sing” in my listening room with either source, I need to crank the volume to -15db, which doesn’t leave much headroom.

Is this normal, or should I return the NAD (180w per channel) and upgrade to a more powerful amp?

If I do need to upgrade, what should I look for?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
Good question, I have had my ESL X's over a year and I am very pleased with them. I am driving them with a pair of Carver Silver Sevent's that have been refurbished and put out over 500 watts so I cannot talk to using lower power amps. That said, I have been interested in upgrading to the next level of ML speakers the 11a, 13a, 15a. The 13a has been my focus given my room size, the powered woofer section appeals to me, I think that could use a lower power amp to just drive the electrostatic part. Hopefully some others can post their experiences with lower powered amps.
 
Thanks for the reply. The NAD pushes 180 watts at 8 ohms. Curiously, the specs don’t say what watts they push at 6 ohms. I assumed it would be more than 180, but am disappointed in the lack of headroom. Honestly, I’m not sure I would ever drive the speakers any louder than -15 in my current space, but would still like more headroom for more delicate music. I LOVE the sound from the NAD however, so I’d like to keep it… so I have a conundrum.

If I constantly run the amp at that level, will I risk damaging either the amp or the speakers?
 
Are the ESL X speakers brand new? It seems like maybe the panels are old and shot. My Prodigy panels were like that, but they were about 17 years old or more when I got them. If the speakers are brand new, then id say theres something wrong with the amp. Is the amp new?
 
If you're not overdriving the amp (into distortion) it should not harm the amp as long as it's running within it's specified power band.
 
Are the ESL X speakers brand new? It seems like maybe the panels are old and shot. My Prodigy panels were like that, but they were about 17 years old or more when I got them. If the speakers are brand new, then id say theres something wrong with the amp. Is the amp new?
The speakers and amp are both brand new from Crutchfield.
 
If you're not overdriving the amp (into distortion) it should not harm the amp as long as it's running within it's specified power band.
The amp is not overdriving at all... no distortion or clipping. I just figured there would be more room at the top with the NAD amp. Maybe I would just be better off returning the NAD c399 and upgrading to something like the NAD Masters Series M33 (380 w per channel at 4 ohms / 200 w per channel at 8 ohms)??? Ultimately, this is the one time that my wife has just told me to get the system that I want. The ML speakers are the EPITOME of what I want in speakers, so I just want to make sure I am feeding them what they need to maximize them.
 
The amp is not overdriving at all... no distortion or clipping. I just figured there would be more room at the top with the NAD amp. Maybe I would just be better off returning the NAD c399 and upgrading to something like the NAD Masters Series M33 (380 w per channel at 4 ohms / 200 w per channel at 8 ohms)??? Ultimately, this is the one time that my wife has just told me to get the system that I want. The ML speakers are the EPITOME of what I want in speakers, so I just want to make sure I am feeding them what they need to maximize them.
For only another $1000 over what the NAD M33 costs you can get an amp that is sure to satisfy. A Sanders Sound Systems ESL Mark II Amp.
Sanders Sound Systems - ESL Mark II Amplifier
 
The amp is not overdriving at all... no distortion or clipping. I just figured there would be more room at the top with the NAD amp. Maybe I would just be better off returning the NAD c399 and upgrading to something like the NAD Masters Series M33 (380 w per channel at 4 ohms / 200 w per channel at 8 ohms)??? Ultimately, this is the one time that my wife has just told me to get the system that I want. The ML speakers are the EPITOME of what I want in speakers, so I just want to make sure I am feeding them what they need to maximize them.
I drive mine with a bridged Arcam P429 (270W) so nut much more head room than you, and I have no urge for more (although I felt like you). If you're happy why change? If you have the budget for an upgrade to the Master's series maybe go for that one. (I'd personally also look at a Hegel - review better than NAD on the bas - or Lyngdorf).
 
Got my ESL X's from Crutchfield also, great to deal with. Was not pleased with the original speakers I got, sent those back and got the ESL X.
 
The thing about electrostats is their varying impedance they show an amp based on frequency, you need an amp that can handle those sorts of loads. One rule of thumb I’ve heard is a good amp that can handle these loads will double it’s output as the impedance drops, so if your amp is rated at 180w at 8 ohms you’d want it to put out roughly 360w at 4 ohms.
What I’m seeing for your amp is it’s rated at 180w at either 8 or 4 ohms, that’s probably part of your problem.

I initially had electromotion ESL’s But then upgraded to classic 9’s that I drive with the Anthem MCA 225 mk 2, it puts out 225/400/600 watts at 8/4/2 ohms, I’d highly recommend you upgrade to something like that.
 
As correct as that is most of these amos are stabel to 2 ohms. And do mind you tte deop is the high ens where the effect is low. ML themselv states this too having tested quite a number of amps/receiver. My advise is listen and make your choice based on what you like, and maybe not get too carrid away with theoretically best but with what pleases you.
 
Digging into the Nad a bit, it seems its ratings are 180W at 8Ohms, and 250 at 4Ohms. It's not so much the actual numbers, as the multiplier from 2-4-8 Ohms. That's more a measure of the "reserve" power the amplifier has, which is needed when the impedance of the MLs drop like a stone at the higher frequencies.

Maybe consider a NAD pre-amp with the same specs as the Integrated, and add something like the MCA 225 (mentioned above) or a Bryston 4B-ST. Both those amps can be had on the 2nd hand market for <$1,000.

Best of luck - let us know how it goes
 
Hi! I am a proud new Martin Logan ESL X owner. With the MLs, I got an NAD C399 integrated stereo amp, and I have installed both, bi-wiring the MLs to the NAD. I am using the NAD BluOS and Sonos as my sources, each driving FLAC files from my home audio server over gigabit Ethernet.

Having auditioned the setup, I am hoping I didn’t make a mistake with the NAD. In order to get the MLs to “sing” in my listening room with either source, I need to crank the volume to -15db, which doesn’t leave much headroom.

Is this normal, or should I return the NAD (180w per channel) and upgrade to a more powerful amp?

If I do need to upgrade, what should I look for?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Introduction:
I employ anthem amps either MCA 225 or STR integrated or both. Both these amps both channels simultaneously drive, max power output approx. 180 watts@ 8 ohms. Rated for 2- and 4-ohm loudspeaker resistance.

I drive ELS 9 at amp volume between -35db and -26 dB max. At -26 dB sonic level is not moderate or btw moderate and high, rather is high or loud.

Body:
Perhaps need to increase the volume to -15db depends on the following causal factors:

First, before purchase if audition ML and NAD together and this issue was present. Then perhaps NAD amp does not match ELS X.

Second, DAC settings may influence output dB level. In my experience higher sampling rate results in leaner sonics and lower sonic output level. This difference is not much but is discernible. I use HP and STR DAC. both average in terms of sound quality.

Third, listening distance - too far away, room size - too large and speaker placement - not optimal inside the room, may require a very high or -15db volume level.

Fourth, allow the brand-new equipment to break in. For the first couple or few hours everything sounds great. Then sonics deteriorate to again gradually improve in line with burning in of equipment.

Last but not least, listening to earphones at anything above average speech decibel level or volume over a long period may be problematic.

Conclusion:
A -15 dB level will cause stress on the amplifier and on the ELS X low frequency driver. A -15db volume setting is like a tidal wave and may accelerate wear and tear of amplifier circuitry and loudspeaker cones. There are exceptions to this statement.

Anthem MCA 225 Gen.2. Is a good match and in comparison, to Sanders ESL Mark 2, is affordable and approx. 2/5 sale price. However, sonics through Sander's amp I guess are exemplary.

I would recommend the ESL Mark 2 for non-hybrid electrostatic speakers. For hybrid ELS would recommend Sanders Magtech amplifier. Magtech is designed to optimally drive electrostatic and especially dynamic loudspeaker drivers.

Return the New Acoustic Dimension integrated amp, if possible, without incurring financial loss. The Magtech is too expensive and too powerful for ELS X.

Look no further than Anthem MCA 225 generation 2 power amp. MCA 225 matches with ELS X. I used to drive ELS 9 through MCA 225 using a jack to 2XLRM cable directly attached to HP desktop. On the desktop ran Audirvana software. Adjust volume through this software. The sonics are good. A conservative statement. Actually, superb or great. Available at Crutchfield.
 
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I use a 55wpc Lavardin IT in a 14ft x 23ft room and they play louder than I need - and I like loud orchestral and rock music at times. It might be worth trying a few amps in your room because it might not be the wpc but the ability to drive what can be quite a challenging load.
 
I use a 55wpc Lavardin IT in a 14ft x 23ft room and they play louder than I need - and I like loud orchestral and rock music at times. It might be worth trying a few amps in your room because it might not be the wpc but the ability to drive what can be quite a challenging load.

Latest incarnation of Lavardin IT i.e Lavardin ITx has market value 6,900 GBP. This figure is greater than the 3X sale price in USA of Anthem MCA225 generation 2.

Anthem is a company related to Martin Logan. MCA225 may not offer similar quality of sonics but satisfaction is subjective. I may be more than satisfied with no sugar in my tea. Others may be satisfied to the same extent after adding one spoon of sugar in their tea. Which tea is sweeter in absolute terms or if we are objective? The one with a single teaspoon of sugar. Blah, blah...

ESL X does not offer challenging resistance for MCA 225. This amp is stable when resistance to ampere flow vacilitates caused by changing frequency of audio signal. I know from long term usage experience that MCA225 will do a better job driving ELS X rather than ELS 9. No point wasting time and money trying amps if you know Anthem MCA 225 manages more than adequately. Unless we suffer from amplifiermaybiteus and in that case will be theendofus. Though Lavardin may be best...
 
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Just a follow-up to all who have commented here... I decided to go with the NAD M33. It is being delivered today and I will post results for anyone else having similar concerns in the future.

Thanks again to all for your comments and help!
 
I notice both are class D amps. I know some owners on here use that, but I have no experience. Has anyone had issues using class D with the elctrostats? The M33 does just about double its output going from 8 to 4 ohms. That's great.
 
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