SACD, DVD-A, vs CD

[mosttoysrk]

Those with multiple formad cd/dvd players how much of a difference does the SACD/DVD-A format make in comparison to CD. I am tempted to try the OPPO 970hd. It has received mixed reviews from raves (Stereophile) to so so from private owners.

 

[Rich]

Those with multiple formad cd/dvd players how much of a difference does the SACD/DVD-A format make in comparison to CD. I am tempted to try the OPPO 970hd. It has received mixed reviews from raves (Stereophile) to so so from private owners.

For systems with a lot of resolving ability, I think the higher resolution formats make a big difference. Like anything else, it is case dependant. Meaning that if a piece of music is poorly recorded or mastered, it won't sound any better just because it is on a high resolution format. But for discs that are well engineered, the SACD and DVD-A formats are just spooky-real.

As for the Oppo 970-HD, if you listen to music primarily in two-channel and don't have a good outboard DAC, I highly recommend buying a modified version from Reference Audio Mods or some other reputable modifier. I did just that and am very happy with the sound of the player in two channel.

 

[Audioseduction]

If both SACD and CD were the same in recording quality I say the SACD is noticeably better sounding format as it has higher resolution with tighter bass. In my case I feel that my system is capable to resolve any resolution that the front end is capable of giving. That's why I have a universal player to give me the freedom to listen to what ever format I choose.:music:

 

[tonyc]

My listening experience has been limited to the players I have owned, a Pioneer DV-47, Denon DVD 1920, Lexicon RT-10, and Ayre C5xe. On each of these players SACD and DVDA are both better sounding than the same RBCD. Concrete examples include Yes Fragile on DVDA and Dire Straits Brothers in Arms on SACD as well as Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon. Of course, not all of the SACD's and DVDA's are well recorded and a poor recording in a superior format still sucks bigtime (and you spent more money!). I have not heard the Oppo but the reviews are glowing and it is not that expensive. There is of course no guarantee that either of these formats will still be viable a year from now!

 

[treitz3]

IMO, SACD is the best format out there for a digital source. HDCD, XRCD, DVD-A can come close, but no cigar. The difference between SACD and redbook can make your rig sound like you got a new one, depending on the setup itself.

Of course with all formats, there will be recording limitations and mixing errors that the format cannot help or erase, so keep that in mind.

Also, the Oppo you had mentioned is known more for video and not sonic qualities. A dedicated SACD player will yield the absolute best sound that SACD can offer. Most inexpensive SACD/CD players and universal players down mix the SACD (DSD) signal to PCM, which will not allow you to really hear what SACD is all about.

I wrote down the differences of what I heard the very day that I got SACD running in my rig. These are my observances.....

Better representation of musical accuracy concerning no overponderance of bass.
Improved separation of instruments.
More dimension / depth of soundstage.
I "felt" [as well as heard] the musical frequencies more at the same listening level.
Better "crispness" to the music.
Discovered new noises of guitar plucks / slides.
Quiter background while music played.
Lead singer was more "in your face".
It sounded as if the amplifiers were producing the music with no effort / less work.

 

[Audioseduction]

Also, the Oppo you had mentioned is known more for video and not sonic qualities. A dedicated SACD player will yield the absolute best sound that SACD can offer. Most inexpensive SACD/CD players and universal players down mix the SACD (DSD) signal to PCM, which will not allow you to really hear what SACD is all about.

That's why I love my Esoteric so much as it plays SACD's in the DSD mode. :music:

 

[asindc]

Also, the Oppo you had mentioned is known more for video and not sonic qualities. A dedicated SACD player will yield the absolute best sound that SACD can offer. Most inexpensive SACD/CD players and universal players down mix the SACD (DSD) signal to PCM, which will not allow you to really hear what SACD is all about.[/I]

Actually, the 970 (and its new "successor," the 980) is known more for its audio qualities than video. The 981 (and its predecessor, the 971) are the models known more for their video qualities than audio because they have Faroudja video processing.

I have the 970 connected to a Benchmark DAC-1 and the results are quite impressive. I know that some members here have the 981 (with some of them also using a DAC with it) and are pleased with the 2ch results from that model as well.

Unless you are running both the 2ch signal and the multi-ch signal (and 2ch SACD) through the same high quality preamp (Arcam, Anthem,... Theta?!) with the same interconnects, I think it is difficult to discern which format sounds best in your listening room with your setup.

Most people I know (including me) run their multi-ch (and 2ch SACD) through an HT receiver or HT premp separate from their 2ch setup, or are using an mid-range HT receiver for both. Either way, you are not getting the most out of the multi-ch audio and SACD experience, IMHO.

I only have a few SACDs, which I bought just to try the format. All the comments about increased resolution and dynamic control are true. But my current HT receiver, Onkyo 805, doesn't provide the same musicality that my 2ch setup does. I would love to eventually get to the point where my multi-ch setup is comparable to the 2ch setup for audio. But I'm leary of investing too much for that, since as a previous poster noted, it is far from certain that the current multi-ch audio formats will be viable for much longer.

 

[mosttoysrk]

As I understand it, the OPPO and most players will not pass a spdif signal(when playing SACD) through optical or coax because of copyright protection. I was planning on sending the digital out from the OPPO to my Krell KPS-20i, but it won't work except on some DVD-A that do not have copy protection on the disk.

I was wondering if the OPPO could beat my Krell playing a well recorded SACD disk and the Krell playing the same recording with RBCD. I know it is not a fair hardware comparison but was wondering if the SACD can make up some of the difference.

How much of a difference was there between a hybrid cd on the OPPO playing RBCD and SACD? (especially if you have to listen to the OPPO through analog out in SACD and RBCD through an external DAC)

 

[asindc]

As I understand it, the OPPO and most players will not pass a spdif signal(when playing SACD) through optical or coax because of copyright protection. I was planning on sending the digital out from the OPPO to my Krell KPS-20i, but it won't work except on some DVD-A that do not have copy protection on the disk.

I was wondering if the OPPO could beat my Krell playing a well recorded SACD disk and the Krell playing the same recording with RBCD. I know it is not a fair hardware comparison but was wondering if the SACD can make up some of the difference.

How much of a difference was there between a hybrid cd on the OPPO playing RBCD and SACD? (especially if you have to listen to the OPPO through analog out in SACD and RBCD through an external DAC)

I don't know about the differences between a hybrid CD for the two formats (see my previous comment), but concerning sending spdif from Oppo via digital output, it can be done via HDMI. Also, the new 980 can send DSD via HDMI to the processor for SACD. Your processor has to be able to decode it, of course. If you don't have HDMI, then none of the Oppos will allow you to do what you suggest.

 

[mosttoysrk]

I don't know about the differences between a hybrid CD for the two formats

A hybrid SACD disc contains both the RBCD info as well as the SACD info. You can choose which you would like to play. I was interested in the sound difference between the RBCD going through your external DAC and if the SACD would sound better playing through the internal DAC of the OPPO. (playing the same recording )

 

[mosttoysrk]

Would this external HDMI to DVI and Toslink Audio work to send a signal to Krell KPS 20i DAC?

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3939

 

[asindc]

A hybrid SACD disc contains both the RBCD info as well as the SACD info. You can choose which you would like to play. I was interested in the sound difference between the RBCD going through your external DAC and if the SACD would sound better playing through the internal DAC of the OPPO. (playing the same recording )

I know0 how it works, I meant that I don't know about the relative quality between the two, which is why I referrred back to my previous comment.

 

[David Matz]

IMO, SACD is the best format out there for a digital source. HDCD, XRCD, DVD-A can come close, but no cigar. The difference between SACD and redbook can make your rig sound like you got a new one, depending on the setup itself.

Of course with all formats, there will be recording limitations and mixing errors that the format cannot help or erase, so keep that in mind.

Also, the Oppo you had mentioned is known more for video and not sonic qualities. A dedicated SACD player will yield the absolute best sound that SACD can offer. Most inexpensive SACD/CD players and universal players down mix the SACD (DSD) signal to PCM, which will not allow you to really hear what SACD is all about.

I wrote down the differences of what I heard the very day that I got SACD running in my rig. These are my observances.....

Better representation of musical accuracy concerning no overponderance of bass.
Improved separation of instruments.
More dimension / depth of soundstage.
I "felt" [as well as heard] the musical frequencies more at the same listening level.
Better "crispness" to the music.
Discovered new noises of guitar plucks / slides.
Quiter background while music played.
Lead singer was more "in your face".
It sounded as if the amplifiers were producing the music with no effort / less work.

I love the characteristics of SACD listed above!
Oppo is a wonderful upscaling dvd player. However, if you purchase it primarily for audio only, it will leave you desiring much more. The SACD on the Oppo is a bit better than the redbook, but it does not do the format justice. Can you possibly add a few more hundred bucks and get a decent CD player like the Rotel instead? The Rotel redbook will sound much better than the SACD on the Oppo. If you play a well recorded SACD on a well engineered product like the Ayre, it's what music hobby is all about and source upgradeitis is gone forever.

 

[kcl]

I too have the Oppo 970 that I got upgraded from Reference Audio Mods, and I'm delighted with it. (Also, as mentioned earlier, the 970 is known more for its audio over its video performance.) I have the 5.1 output from the 970 going directly to the amps via the pass-thru mode on my Sunfire TGP-5.

As for which is better, SACD or DVD-A, I've found that any difference perceived between the two is minimal compared to how much better both are over 'regular' CDs. There's a caveat here, however, as I consider myself a 'qualityphile' (tm ) rather than an audiophile. That is, whatever differences I hear doesn't mean that much to me relative to the overall marvelous sound I get from my system.

 

[amey01]

After listening to a few SACDs, putting a redbook CD on I may as well just turn the system off.

Yes, it's that good.

 

[paulo m]

After listening to a few SACDs, putting a redbook CD on I may as well just turn the system off.

Yes, it's that good.

IMHO, if you get a good upsampling player there will be no big difference. Perhaps a bit more air and a sense of limitless highs.

 

[mosttoysrk]

Can you possibly add a few more hundred bucks and get a decent CD player like the Rotel instead? The Rotel redbook will sound much better than the SACD on the Oppo. If you play a well recorded SACD on a well engineered product like the Ayre, it's what music hobby is all about and source upgradeitis is gone forever.

I actually have what I think is a great cd player, a Krell KPS 20i, I was just wondering if the SACD media being "so much better than RBCD" could sound better using the Oppo as a transport and sending the digital signal into the Krell DAC.

 

[ralflar]

After listening to a few SACDs, putting a redbook CD on I may as well just turn the system off.

Yes, it's that good.

That's not how I feel about it. While I do love SACD I find many CD recordings supremely enjoyable (when using a good DAC).

On the Ayre C5xe the difference between SACD and CDDA can be quite obvious with the right software. On my Denon 2910 SACD sounds just like CD. On my Arcam 139 and the 137 I had before it SACD sounds quite a bit better but not by a mile. Well recorded CDs sound awesome, too. The same can be said about SB3 w/ a decent DAC. I don't think that SACD can sound any better than Redbook if the digital to analog conversion is not up to par. It is not in my Denon. I also have doubts that the Oppos can be any better at their price points, whatever the reviewers say.

As for HDMI, that would leave the D/A conversion to the receiver... Ouch, IMO that it sub par also, at least for 2 channel mode.

Which brings me to the undeniable SACD advantages as I percieve them: 2.0 or 5.1 playback on any price level of playback hardware, and more so, the average quality of recordings. Perhaps I have been lucky in my SACD choices (at most 60 so far). My experience with SACD so far has been positive, however.

 

[Audioseduction]

I actually have what I think is a great cd player, a Krell KPS 20i, I was just wondering if the SACD media being "so much better than RBCD" could sound better using the Oppo as a transport and sending the digital signal into the Krell DAC.

You can't send the "SACD" digital signal out due to copyright protection.

 

[asindc]

You can't send the "SACD" digital signal out due to copyright protection.

You can thru HDMI, which of course has copy protection built into the technology. It just can't be done thru toslink or digital coaxial cable.