Hardware upgrade quandries

[the-chauffeur]

Hey folks.

Having recently acquired a pair of Ascent's, I'm looking for some advice/guidance/thoughts on my next audio system 'moves'. My system as it stands is heavily Musical Fidelity biased - X-Ray CD, A3.24 DAC, Nu-Vista pre, X-A200 mono powers, Nu-Vista interconnects/speaker cables with a REL Strata II sub. And very nice it sounds, too, particularly now that I've put a couple of 7ft tall bass traps into the listening room and treated some of the walls.

Trouble is, the guy I bought the Ascent's from had them running off a full valve system - pre- and monoblocs (although for the life of me I can't remember the manufacturers of his kit). Anyway, when he was demo-ing the speakers for me, I couldn't help but notice just how 'liquid' the sound was; it was neither overly analytical, nor laid back . . . but instead, amazingly musical. It made my MF stuff sound dry by comparison, and that bit more 2D than I'd realised.

Having been out of the market for a few years, the upgrade bug has kinda bitten again, and I've started wondering where to go next. Toughest decision so far is just where to start - well, that and just what sort of budget I can afford. Looking at the new kit on the market (particularly CD/SACD players with valve output stages/valve DACs), my own thoughts on what to do next are not exactly linear - in fact, they're kinda all over the place.

One thing I will be doing is changing the subwoofer (no decisions yet, but something more musical), so that can be left out of the equation right now. And although I've got an LP12 knocking around, for the sake of simplicity I'm restricting myself to concentrating on a digital front end (for now, he says). But I think I'm faced with several options at this point...

- start 'small' by changing either the source, the DAC or both. I'm quite taken with the idea of a CD/SACD player with valve output stage - like the Shanling, for instance - but at the same time I'm conscious that an offboard DAC gives greater flexibility in the long term (and of course MF do the Tri-Vista DAC). And I've no idea what the future holds for CD/SACD; or

- change the power amps for something valve, an idea I like a whole lot, but involves significantly more variables. For a start, I'm still not entirely sure what sort of valve power am I looking for to drive the Ascent's. Another issue is the availability of prospective choices for demo (the UK isn't exactly awash with valve dealers). But a couple of things I've seen recently caught my eye; firstly, a Radford STA35 stereo valve amp. Very attractive and very musical - granted it's not a monobloc, but it could be partnered with another and used to bi-amp at a later date. Secondly, an MF Nu-Vista - yes, recurring theme, sorry - pre- and 300 power set up. (I know I've already got the pre-, but the seller isn't prepared to split because the set has matching serial numbers).

Or do I take an even more adventurous approach and go in a completely different direction?

Your wisdom (and humour) would be greatly appreciated.

Neil

 

[risabet]

Start with the preamp IMO. It has been my experience that a tube preamp can give about 70% of the tube magic that you heard at the demo. Another way might be a tubed DAC such as the TADAC by Tube Audio Design which gives digital a warmth reminiscent of good analog @ a real world price In addition if your running only one or two sources you can use it as a preamp. Check the link below:

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/TADAC.html

 

[Bernard]

Doesn't MF also make a tube buffer stage? You may want to give that a try, between your pre and power amps. I am just guessing here as I have not heard the tube buffer stage in action.

 

[Rich]

The MF tube buffer stage is not a really high-end component and probably wouldn't do much to help the sound of your setup. I own one and it is useful to improve the sound of some components (such as my satellite radio tuner) while it degrades the sound of others.

I understand what you are missing. MF makes some great gear, but it is a little on the dry side, lacking that midrange warmth and bloom that you can get from good tube (valve) gear.

I think you are on the right track with the idea of a CD player with a tube output stage. I also wholeheartedly agree with risabet's suggestion of a tube preamp. A quality tube preamp will get you most of the way there to the liquid sound you are seeking, and you can still use your MF amps. Good luck with it and let us know what you decide.

 

[kcl]

Just a brief note on your subwoofer upgrade. When I upgraded my system to Ascents back in 2002, I already had an excellent 12" Velodyne sub. Unfortunately (like you, apparently), I felt that something was lacking when listening to music. The solution I settled on was the MS Descent, as I felt it matched the Ascents the best of the subs I tried. (I still have it, in fact, even though I upgraded the system to Summits.)

 

[the-chauffeur]

Thanks gang - some very helpful pointers...particularly those in relation to the pre-amp. I know the MF Nu-Vista is a tube pre- of sorts, but my guess (without having pulled one apart) is that it's more of a hybrid, and what I need to be looking at is something that is almost entirely valve-build.

Since the last post, I picked up a Sunfire True Junior sub for not very much (the room I'm in isn't huge, so much as I'd like a REL Staduim, one of those and the ML's would completely swamp the place). I first came across Sunfire when I lived in the US about ten years ago - intrigued by the design, I've always wanted one. I'm delighted and confused with it in equal measure. Delighted because at a stroke, it's cut the electrical hum in the room, despite having an offboard transformer to drop the voltage from 240 to 110 - the power transformer in the REL seems to resonate at exactly the wrong frequency for the room . . . either that, or it just hums too darn loud.

Confusion comes from testing the two makes back-to-back - two completely different appraches to bass giving a very different (and strange) listening experience. The REL's big box design (and the fact that it's now ten or so years old) gives it a very warm sound in comparison to the Sunfire - which, with no great chamber to speak of, and powerful amp/push-pull speaker config. seems very direct; the speed with which/at which the drivers start and stop is blistering. Not that it's any less musical, but tuning it - and attuning my ears - is going to be challenging. Room treatments also seem to make far more of an impact on the Sunfire, I guess because without a big cabinet, it uses the room as a reverb chamber. The 7ft tall bass traps at the front of the room are not giving it any easy time.

And on the set-up front, I'm having more than a little trouble adjusting the phase. Following the advice of any number of sites, I reversed the polarity on the speakers and ran a bunch of test tones whilst rotating the phase dial. Neither the significant other, nor I, could discern any obvious point at which the sound level dropped - it was a far more gradual shift. Anyways, I've ended up with the dial slightly ahead of the normal position to take account of the ML panel speed. Feel free to chuck in any suggestions you might have on this front...

And so back to the tube quandry. Something I forgot to mention previously is that I'm not a big buyer of new kit - in fact, given the choice, I'd always take used and pocket the change. And on top of that, I'm quite happy to dive in and pull stuff apart - a couple of years ago I rebuilt the electrics (transformer and crossovers) of a pair of Quad ESL57's. Thanks to Bernard for the MF tube stage suggestion . . . I went through almost the entire X-range at one point and had one of the original ones several years ago. I swapped the tubes for something a little more sparkly than the ones they're supplied with, but even then the effect it had on the sound never really got me too excited. That said, I was using a pair of Linn speakers (Keleidh's if I remember correctly) - I guess the effects with the ML's is likely to be more noticeable.

I've also been looking around t'internet for possible valve amps/sacd options, and China looks like it might be the place to go. For a start, the Ming Da MC-7R pre looks promising; not only does it look well built and seems to have a good sound out of the box, but there are a number of web resources/retailers offering fairly comprehensive upgrade/modding services - added to that, the prices seem attractive and the units look relatively easy to work on (so even if I do stuff it up, I won't be hugely out of pocket). As for the front end, I've seen some of the Shanling stuff first hand, and it's incredibly well built - not dissimilar to the MF stuff. I guess one of the questions I've gotta ask myself is whether I want to buy domestic - say a Tri-Vista DAC - and pay domestic prices (these things hold their value pretty well) or embrace the new world and bugger the consequences.

Lots to think about. Still, next week off work to listen to half of the new sounds I've bought. Can I suggest Nick Drakes' Treasury SACD for your Sunday morning listening? And while I'm about it, get hold of a copy of Rob Dougan's Fallen Angels CD - make sure it's the special edition 2 disc. The first CD has vocal versions of the stuff on CD 2 - frankly, the vocals ruin what should have always been instrumentals from the guy who brought you Clubbed To Death (from the Matrix soundtrack). Epic stuff.

Thanks again for your help.