Vantages and a sub-woofer?

[Rich]

Any info from a sales rep should be taken with a shaker full of salt. Since their subs don't have it, you don't need it...that's what I'd expect to hear from them...are they going to say their subs are defecient because they don't have it?...not likely

I concur. Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. The Descent and Depth are two of the most musical, powerful, and fast subs on the market. I don't think they added servo control to "correct" a faulty design. They spent a lot of time and money to research innovative ways to design a sub that can provide tons of power, stop and start on a dime (to keep up with their electrostatic panels), and sound good with movies or music. By all accounts, they succeeded admirably.

 

[Joey_V]

I concur. Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. The Descent and Depth are two of the most musical, powerful, and fast subs on the market. I don't think they added servo control to "correct" a faulty design. They spent a lot of time and money to research innovative ways to design a sub that can provide tons of power, stop and start on a dime (to keep up with their electrostatic panels), and sound good with movies or music. By all accounts, they succeeded admirably.

The beauty in ML designs, I think, lies in their top end subwoofer....

The ML sales rep told me that the blue print for the Descent covered 3 walls of a 12x12 room. The Stats, on the other hand, had blueprints that covered only the 4th wall.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Any info from a sales rep should be taken with a shaker full of salt. Since their subs don't have it, you don't need it...that's what I'd expect to hear from them...are they going to say their subs are defecient because they don't have it?...not likely

Easy there Peter, I AM a sales rep and I would NEVER do/say anything like that! That would just be wrong to assert that your product because it lacks something that others have makes the other bad because they have it... LOL!

 

[Caerus]

Thanks to all for the valuable information.

Putting the design differences a side, why does the REL have a reputation for being a fast sub able to keep up with the estat panel design and have tight articulate bass as well?

I won't touch the sales rep comments. I have known to be one every once in awhile.

Brad

 

[DTB300]

Putting the design differences a side, why does the REL have a reputation for being a fast sub able to keep up with the estat panel design and have tight articulate bass as well?

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm

Read this article concerning "Fast Bass" :haha1: , then determine which camp you are in.

For me, proper implementation of the entire sub determines how well the sub performs reproducing frequencies - this is not fast or slow.

Dan

 

[IWalker]

Thanks to all for the valuable information.

Putting the design differences a side, why does the REL have a reputation for being a fast sub able to keep up with the estat panel design and have tight articulate bass as well?

I won't touch the sales rep comments. I have known to be one every once in awhile.

Brad

Because it is a well built sealed sub. Box resonances and high distortion (plus room induced peaks) are generally what give them impression of "slow" bass. High Le also can be a factor, though it's generally less of a factor than these others. It is also a relative concept. A sub that sounds good and "fast" might sound "slow" in comparison to a good servo sub, but much better that a poorly built sub.

Building sealed subs (the boxes) is a pretty easy/straightforward thing...ML has added 2 improvements that on paper would suggest it would perform better than other subs. Servo technology (reduces distortion by a huge factor - a claimed 6-9db) and their offsetting drivers, which should reduce box vibrations, and should cancel out mechanical distortion from the drivers.

If the REL was a lot less expensive, it would be a decent option, I think...but I think ML has the technological advantages, and the descent also has greater output capability than the higher end REL you listed. With the current cost of used descents, it's a no-brainer imo.

 

[cstory]

If you are really interested in comparing the performance of some of the subwoofers out there, these are two good sites that do objective testing of a bunch of different subwoofers. While measurements may not correlate to how they sound in your room, they do provide some insight into the design of the systems. I find the REL data particularly interesting. If you go with a Descent I'm sure you will be pleased.

Chuck


http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=50&rid=0&SQ=0

 

[Caerus]

Conclusion to my sub-quest

Thanks again for all the great information. Well I auditioned the REL R305 for a week in my home and it is a great musical sub that integrated well with the Vantages. If I was listening to just two channel I would be very happy with this sub. It fell way short in home theater. It could not keep up with the requirements for HT in my room setting. It was clipping badly and at the speaker stops.

I then took home a new black Depth i for a weekend try out. It was the display demo from the dealer. Well it too integrated very well for music. I made two speaker wires for L/R speaker line connection for two channel from the amp to the sub. I also connected the subs LFE input from the HT AVR. No surprise to how well the sub blended in with the Vantages. The sub performed very well for HT and was not overly taxed at all like the REL R305 for HT. I was very happy with it, so I ordered a dark cherry Depth i to match my Vantages. It should arrive early next week.

My system (at least speaker wise) seems complete now. My next upgrade will probably be an integrated amp, so I can function separately for two channel. That way I would have L/R pre-outs from the amp to connect to the sub versus speaker line inputs. I assume that may be better, but I don't really know for sure.

Thanks again. Brad

 

[Joey_V]

Congrats, Brad! Glad that the Depth worked out for ya! I mean.. Depth i!

Post pics when you get things set up!

Thanks,
Joey