Upgrading my sound system: with ML speakers?

[meall]

Hi,

Here is a bref description of what I have actually:

YBA CD 1∆ CD player
YBA Preamp/amp 2∆
JMLab Electra 915 speakers
All interconnect and speaker cables are YBA Diamond

This system serve only a music system, no home theather setup, not now, not even in the futur. It is music only. I listen to all kinds of music, from pregressive rock (Pink Floyd) to jazz (fusion, classic jazz, more modern jazz, singer jazz, etc) passing by classical music, world music, and I'm sure I forgot something even with that list. But to keep it simple, a rarely listen to pop music or things like that, maybe just a few exceptions (like Peter Gabriel for instance).

I think I have a very good system, except for the bass: the 915 are a little bit flat on this side. Talking recently with my YBA dealer, we discus about upgrading this. The new Electra 1037 Beryllium are a good choice, but a pricey one. So we talked about adding a sub to this, or simply changing the speakers to ML.

The sub suggestion is to use a Depth.

The speaker replacement is to be something like a Vantage set.

I'm planning a listening session soon, maybe next week. I'm wandering if I can get few advise, review or things to be aware of before listening to this. Any one have similar setup that can be compared with? Any suggestions?

I had in the past already used electrostatics speakers (Acoustat Spectra 22) and I liked them. Except, they were difficult to drive (lot of required power) and lack of bass too. The Electra added a bit to this, but now I do now find it enough. And I remember the electrostatics to have much more sound image (almost 3D sound) than the classical set of speakers. Does the ML Vantage can have this 3D space sound too?

Thanks for any advise.

 

[MotorToad]

You absolutely can have that sound from the Vantage! They're easier to drive than most other ESLs since the amp is relieved of the woofer load. You still need a good, high-current amp but there's not the need for the ridiculous power levels that others require.

As I'm sure you know, placement and room acoustics are very important, so make sure to experiment if the sound isn't initially astonishing. I have no experience with YBA, but it looks like it'll handle a (very) low impedance load.

 

[meall]

You absolutely can have that sound from the Vantage! They're easier to drive than most other ESLs since the amp is relieved of the woofer load. You still need a good, high-current amp but there's not the need for the ridiculous power levels that others require.

I hope so. What's make me go away of my Acoustat was not the sound wuality, but the drive they require. As for the sound and image, I was more satisfy of the Acoustat than the Electra. The later have a good sounds reproduction, so it was not that bad, except for the base. At the time, I was considering, too, adding a sub to the kit, but that was not a solution I liked at the time.

I'm not sure this solution is the right one this time too! Even with the ML Depth sub. It is the cheapest solution, but cheap is not always best!

As I'm sure you know, placement and room acoustics are very important, so make sure to experiment if the sound isn't initially astonishing. I have no experience with YBA, but it looks like it'll handle a (very) low impedance load.

Yea, I know that room is almost half the sound quality. The other half behing the sound system itself. And a small part has to do with the CD recording too, for that matter!

In my manual for the 2∆ amp it is noted that it can power 70W at 8Ω and 140W at 4Ω. At least, it can switch to 4Ω automatically, which is a very good start! As for power, that should be more than enought, if it can render the sound quality I need and the bass done by the Vantage...

Thanks for your input.

 

[tonyc]

I have owned Acoustat 2's and Acoustat 3's in the past and they are a cruel load on an amp. I now use Summits and can tell you they are much easier to drive than Acoustats. I am sure the Vantages are also easier as well.

 

[edwinr]

Meall, if you like electrostatic speakers, that's the way to go. The Vantages have great drive and involvement - you just don't get that with standard speaker designs without spending lots of money. Also with the Vantage you wouldn't have to worry about a sub. At least not straight away. The Vantage has excellent bass extension which will surprise you given the size of the speakers.

 

[meall]

I have owned Acoustat 2's and Acoustat 3's in the past and they are a cruel load on an amp. I now use Summits and can tell you they are much easier to drive than Acoustats. I am sure the Vantages are also easier as well.

Thanks for your inputs. I'm happy to see that I was not the only one to try the Acoustat at the time

By the way, I'm not so familiar with the Matin Logan speakers, where the Vantage goes in the line compared to the Summits you have?

When I look at ML.com site, I can see 2 main product series: ESL and Design. Then, for each, there a lot of choices, but I'm not sure which one is the top of the line or the bottom one.

 

[tonyc]

The Vantage is one step down the ESL line from the Summit. The ESL line is tops.

 

[meall]

Hi,

Meall, if you like electrostatic speakers, that's the way to go. The Vantages have great drive and involvement - you just don't get that with standard speaker designs without spending lots of money. Also with the Vantage you wouldn't have to worry about a sub. At least not straight away. The Vantage has excellent bass extension which will surprise you given the size of the speakers.

Yea, in my years of research for a good system, I know that standard speakers are more expensive than electrostatic for the same sound quality. But my Acoustat were so difficult to drive that I almost loose faith in that technology.

But I'm intrigue by the end of your message. Why "Also with the Vantage you wouldn't have to worry about a sub. At least not straight away."?

What do you mean by that?

Thanks

 

[meall]

The Vantage is one step down the ESL line from the Summit. The ESL line is tops.

Oh, thanks, very straight forward!

The seller told my that the Vantage are around 7500$CAD, how much the Summit are from the Vantage in price comparison?

And in sound quality, what's the big advantage of the top of the line?

Thanks again.

 

[kcl]

Well, I'm not certain about the current prices (there were some increases about six months ago), but they were originally $4995 for the Vantage vs $9995 for the Summit. That's essentially a 40 percent difference, so $7500 CAD for the Vantages would be about $12500 CAD for the Summits.

 

[meall]

Well, I'm not certain about the current prices (there were some increases about six months ago), but they were originally $4995 for the Vantage vs $9995 for the Summit. That's essentially a 40 percent difference, so $7500 CAD for the Vantages would be about $12500 CAD for the Summits.

If the price range is that for the Summit, its almost the same as the Electra Beryllium 1037. So, that is another jump I'm not sure I'll do... especially considering that my 915 may have a value lower than 2500$...

Thanks

 

[meall]

I will do a listening session this saturday. I'll see (or hear) what that can do for me. I hope for the best!

 

[kcl]

For what its worth, its my opinion that the Vantage is the best 'bang for the buck' within the Martin Logan line. You get probably 90% or more of the Summit's capabilities for 60% the cost.

 

[meall]

For what its worth, its my opinion that the Vantage is the best 'bang for the buck' within the Martin Logan line. You get probably 90% or more of the Summit's capabilities for 60% the cost.

Thanks, that's a good thing to know. For 40% higher in price, I was asking myself if they were really that different from Vantage to Summit. Sometimes you just pay for the name!

I'll have to choose my CDs for my listening session later this week. If anyone have something to consider I may have, please let me know.

 

[meall]

Hi,

I finally listened to the ML Vantage yesterday, and I was really impress. For the price, they give a lot a good sound. I listen to them a bit more than 4 hours, so that is certainly a sign that I like them.

 

[Craig]

The Summits are currently the ultimate ML speaker but the Vantage is not far behind. It is the best value ML speaker and you will hear improvements with every upgrade in your system. Since these speakers use powered woofers you are actually getting dual mono woofer amps along with the speaker and effectively biamping when using Vantages or Summits.

The increased sensitivity level (as compared to previous ML models) allows you more amplifier options than before since you can get great results without having to use a high powered amp. A high current amp typically works well with Electrostats including many tube amps.

These speakers are very accurate and faithfully reproduce what your source components are playing. Having some capability to tune the bass is also a nice feature to help tune the sound to your room, system and taste.

Your YBA components should work well with these.

 

[meall]

The Summits are currently the ultimate ML speaker but the Vantage is not far behind. It is the best value ML speaker and you will hear improvements with every upgrade in your system. Since these speakers use powered woofers you are actually getting dual mono woofer amps along with the speaker and effectively biamping when using Vantages or Summits.

From what I read, Vantage offer a good part of the Summit sound for almost half the price. And, I must admit, having a dual sub is not bad. Most people think bass cannot be stereo, but I personally don't agree.

These speakers are very accurate and faithfully reproduce what your source components are playing. Having some capability to tune the bass is also a nice feature to help tune the sound to your room, system and taste.

When I listen to them, I listened t them, I immediately realized that they were really transparent. I mean, the sounds that comes out is the one that is produce by the electronics, no tint, no exaggeration of any kind.

For sure, in the listening post I did not tune (neither the vendor) the bass to the room, but having this possibility is very nice. At first, when I read that in the online manual, I found it a bit weird. But, I think it is a good think after all, just less plug and play than most speakers, but that could be an advantage in the long run.

Your YBA components should work well with these.

I'm sure they will, because in the listening post I had my CD 1 player (that just came out from their repair center for an adjustment) and they provided me with a 2∆ pre/amp they had in stock. So, that was the exact setup I have back home. I was satisfy there, I should be here! Only differences was the cabling: they had Transparent Cable while I have the YBA Diamond cables. But they told me they are about the same category.

Now, I just need a few more month to make the cash, and it should be there in my house by the end of the summer. I hope...