The Audio Room.... need generic help and tips

[Joey_V]

So... the time has come to awaken from my dormant state and begin Joey 2.0 - a new re-imagined version of my previous audiophile self.

Step 1:
- Renew subscriptions for Stereophile and TAS (check, did that today).
Step 2:
- Recall password and sign on for audiogon (check)
Step 3:
- Begin the search for the next set of audio equipment (check and checking)
Step 4:
- Begin the process of the room (checking)

Ok ok... enough with the cheesiness.

So, I'm looking at homes and looking at custom additions to the home for my audio room.

There have been some issues that I've learned from my prior audio experiences.

- It's gotta be sizeable but not too big. It has to be bigger than 10x10 (old dorm room).
- Ceiling height should be 8-9 feet, I don't think it's a good idea for it to be 12+ feet or vaulted or 2-stories tall (like my loft - not a good listening area).
- Carpet beats hardwood - too much reflections (again, lesson learned from the loft).
- First floor (or basement) beats 2nd floor... the bass needs some foundation. And lugging a 200lb speaker up the stairs is not my idea of fun.
- Treatments are important.

So.... the other questions remain:
1. How big is the ideal room for 2 channel listening? Should it be longer than it is wide? A rectangle? Or a square?
2. How tall should the ceiling really be? I've seen people place diffusors on the ceiling...
3. Treatments... where do I go for professional treatments? Do I commission Rives to do this?
4. I need pure power supplying the room - how many 120 amp sockets do I need? I recall from the back of my memory something about installing dedicated 120 amp sockets for an audio room.

Yes... as everyone had mentioned before - the room is king. This is my chance to do things right from the getgo.

 

[Joey_V]

I'm really thinking something like this room... maybe a tiny bit smaller.

... some things bug me though. I don't like the hardwood where the speakers stand. I don't like the chair - I tried it and it is not good for listening because of the headrest and the reflections/augmentation it does to the sound.

 

[miljac]

Joey,

start with something smaller ... you can always upgrade the house

 

[Joey_V]

Joey,

start with something smaller ... you can always upgrade the house

Good point too.

But I'm really thinking of building my home with the intention of keeping it (barring financial/professional misadventures).

I don't want to skimp on an audio room but I don't want to go overboard either. I think the most important thing is to HAVE a room dedicated to 2 channel.

4 walls, carpet, insulated and sound-proofed/treated.

 

[zaphod]

keep in mind Phi - the magic ratio. In my current house the ceiling to width is almost exactly Phi and i'll just adjust the length to fit.

Don't make the room too dead. i've done that and it sucked. you can always add treatments, but a dead room is harder to fix.

so consider hardwood over the carpet (floating Laminate can resonate) with wool carpet over it.

now that you're married .... consider two chairs or a small sofa

 

[miljac]

Zaphod has a point ... golden ratio rulez!

 

[MPS]

Assign acoustic expert for planning. Room acoustics you can always work on even afterwards but sound proofing is whole other ball game..

 

[Joey_V]

So is sound proofing a bad thing or a good thing?

Does sound proof = dead room?

Technically, don't we want a dead room? So all we hear are the speakers?

 

[Joey_V]

keep in mind Phi - the magic ratio. In my current house the ceiling to width is almost exactly Phi and i'll just adjust the length to fit.

Don't make the room too dead. i've done that and it sucked. you can always add treatments, but a dead room is harder to fix.

so consider hardwood over the carpet (floating Laminate can resonate) with wool carpet over it.

now that you're married .... consider two chairs or a small sofa

I think you're right about the small 2 seater now.

 

[MPS]

So is sound proofing a bad thing or a good thing?

Does sound proof = dead room?

Technically, don't we want a dead room? So all we hear are the speakers?

Sound proofing doesn't necessary relate to room acoustics at all, it's all about how much sound is traveling/leaking out of or in to your listening room. The best and pretty much only reasonable way to create truly sound proof room is to design and purpose build one, in practice means building a house with sound proof room in it. Problems arise with windows, doors, ventilation, plumbing etc.
Room acoustics is then an issue with dimensions, materials and item placement inside your sound proof environment.
Both issues should be considered before and while building.

 

[Bernard]

I suggest you get Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound". There are a lot of useful tips there you may want to consider before you commission anyone to do any work; you will at least learn what questions to ask.

I assume you are seriously considering a pair of CLX's.

 

[kwr]

Joey - could I strongly suggest that you make this room a multi purpose room. Set it up for two channel audio and my suggestion is to make it double as a library for books and music and potentially a desk/bench workspace and maybe triple up as home theatre in a 2.1 configuration with a retractable screen and overhead projector. Your life will continue to change and you will go through spells where you do not get much of a chance to sit still in a dedicated room. It is always useful to have your spouse interested too and in the event that you have children this will be the most lifechanging thing that will happen to you. Give the room the chance to reflect your changing life.

The problem with carpet is that you then have a fixed cost in terms of frequency absorption that you can not adjust. A hardwood floor with rugs, soft furnishings and room treatments is easier to adjust the frequency response of the room. Could I suggest the you purchase and read Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics. Be aware that builders are not great once you shift them out of the square. There are legions of self appointed acoustic experts on the web. You will solve many problems simply by putting bass traps in corners and diffusion at reflection points. That will get you 90% of the way to a good room as long as you start with reasonable dimensions. Phi 1.618 is a reasonable ratio to play with - it falls well within the ratios that Everest suggests can work.

My bias is informed by my view that a lot of the dedicated rooms with their solitary chair look like a case of significant performance anxiety. You want this house to be your home, a place where you can be yourself, laugh and love alot.

Kevin

 

[Joey_V]

Kevin,

That's the best post I've read in a while. I always pictured this room to be a solitary room but you paint a good argument against that. I'll reevaluate my plans.

 

[MOON]

Hi Joey,

I really agree with what KWR wrote. I built a dedicated soundproof room two years ago. During the building process, I wired the room for a 1080 projector ceiling mounted and wired for an electric retractable screen as well

The projector and screen came a year later. I am the only one to listen to music, although my wife likes watching movies as well as me too.

I used resiliant channelling to attach the drywall, roxal safe and sound soundproof insulation. You can't hear anything in the rest of the house coming out of this room. I acrylic caulked all drywall joints before mudding and taping to guarantee a seal.Think of sound like water, any crack or hole and the sound will escape out of the room.

I pre wired direct lines as well.They are 10 guage wire on 20 amp circuits.

I have 4 ASC tube traps 16x78 tall. Bernard recently suggested moving the traps in the corners behind the speakers to directly behind the speakers with the absorbtive side facing the speaker. Quite a difference for the better. I am a true beleiver of absorbing the back wave as Jon Fo has said time and time again.

Cheers, Greg

 

[Bernard]

Joey, one point Jim Smith makes in his book is that he had many clients who were gung-ho about getting a fancy x.y HT, but found out that after the novelty wore off they were not using it as much for HT, but more just for music. So, you may be well off heeding the advice above to only go for a 2.1 system.

 

[Joey_V]

Yeah... no way I'm wiring this for an HT set up.

I am still very pro-solitary confinement as this has been a dream of mine since I joined this forum and began the audio adventure.

I do hear Kevin's comments regarding getting others involved, but I can do that in the living room or family room. This is purely my room and the less variables I introduce, the purer the 2ch listening experience will be.

And Greg - yeah... I meant 20 amp (10ga) circuits.

I gotta get those books, too.

 

[Bernard]

Joey, I'm not sure you can still call yourself "the Kid" now that you're an old married man!

And don't you think it's time you stopped using Tom's speakers in your avatar?

BTW are you considering a turntable for your new system. I remember you buying one and then selling it almost before you got it. Was that because you just changed your mind, or was that part of the hi-fi laxative you took?

 

[Rich]

Joey,

My experience, from designing and implementing my own personal listening room:

1. Better to go too large than too small. I was limited by room size, and really wish I had more space in all three planes.

2. Pay serious attention to acoustic treatments. This means getting professional advice, be it from Rives, Ethan Winer, or whoever. But also do your own reading and research. You are smart enough to figure out some things that you will prefer. A lot of this is science and a lot of it is subjective.

3. I put in four separate 20 amp circuits with isolated grounds. It is just barely enough. In retrospect, I would have preferred to double that number. Make sure your electricians understand the concept of isolated grounds and understand how to properly implement it.

4. It is worth paying the money for proper room treatments. Just do it. Take the advice of professionals, but also experiment to figure out what you like best.

5. Please consider that this room will have to be more than just a two-channel music listening room for you and your family. If and when you decide to have kids, your life will change considerably. You will have much less time for music and have other things that become important as entertainment (movies, games, etc.). The more versatile you can make this room, the better. This does not have to come at the expense of your two-channel listening experience.

One of my favorite things to do these days is watch sports (I like tennis and college football) on my eight foot big screen with surround sound all around. It is an awesome experience on a Saturday afternoon, and I usually have a group of people in their watching and enjoying it with me. My nephews enjoy to no end being able to play Playstation 3 games on this monster screen with incredible sound. Movies are an experience unto themselves. This is a lot of use and enjoyment that I and others get out of my media room that we would not get if I had only set it up as a two-channel listening room. But I promise you, the sound quality of my two-channel is not diminished and always astonishes those who audition it. The two are not mutually exclusive if you pay proper attention to both. But if you don't wire it for multichannel in the beginning, it is a real pain to do it later.

Let me just re-iterate that you are taking up a whole room in your house. It is very short-sighted to make it solely serve one purpose. The more multifunctional you make it, the more use and enjoyment you will get out of the work you put into creating it and the space you are taking up with it.

That's all for now. More later as I think of other things to add.

 

[Joey_V]

Joey, I'm not sure you can still call yourself "the Kid" now that you're an old married man!

And don't you think it's time you stopped using Tom's speakers in your avatar?

BTW are you considering a turntable for your new system. I remember you buying one and then selling it almost before you got it. Was that because you just changed your mind, or was that part of the hi-fi laxative you took?

Hahaha... you're right... I guess I'm no longer "the kid" as once dubbed by Pops Dave. I'll wait and see what Pops says - if I'm no longer the kid, I'll remove it.

And yeah... I guess I could stop using Tom's speakers on my avatar - I guess it's my last remnant of memory of my old system. But if I remove it, I have no personal audio related avatar to use.

And I did have my Super Scout TT for a couple of months in my system - I sold it and upgraded my digital end (from a PS Audio Digital Link III to a Cary Audio 306/200) if I recall correctly.

This new system will have an analog and digital front end.

 

[Joey_V]

Rich -

Hey bud... thanks man. I hear ya about the utility of the HT/multipurpose room vs the solitary 2ch room.

Still not completely sold on the multichannel set up just yet.