Summit X Center Imaging Question

[Russb]

I had a question on the Summit X center Image mainly on vocals. I have both speakers set up equal distance from front wall and side walls with the same tow-in on both set up by the flashlight, and measered equal. Room 12wX16LX8H. With room treatment.

When I play music with vocals it seems that the voice is slightly on the left of center. I know that all music may not be recorded dead center on the vocals. Is there anythig set-up wise I can do or check to get the center image dead center.

Equipment-
Summit X-NEW
Pass X250.5 New
Wadia 381 New

Thanks

 

[Peter Soderberg]

recordings do vary and what do you have between the speakers i.e. equipment, TV, etc. But the first bell i have ringing is your mention of symmetrical side and back wall placements. Generally a no no as that will produce a peak typically in the lower midrange, upper bass. vary those distances. to get best center image, use a mono recording, single voice, toe in by ear (flashlight is to get your started but not the end all be all of toe in) and you should be able to reach your goal. make sure that voice is life size, not overblown or miniturized.

 

[roberto]

Hola. If you are thinking in a problem, feed a mono signal to both channels... then everything should be at the center image. If your system does not have a mono option, with a simple Y connector, feed only L or R channel at both input channels of your amplifier, and listen center image. If the image moves from the center to one side, then that channel is louder than the other. Swap the input cables at the amp, then listen again, if the center image moves to the other channel, then, it is coming from the preamp, or a bad cable. If remains the same, then swap the speaker amplifier cables, and listen. If the problem remains, you have a faulty Summit X. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Russb]

recordings do vary and what do you have between the speakers i.e. equipment, TV, etc. But the first bell i have ringing is your mention of symmetrical side and back wall placements. Generally a no no as that will produce a peak typically in the lower midrange, upper bass. vary those distances. to get best center image, use a mono recording, single voice, toe in by ear (flashlight is to get your started but not the end all be all of toe in) and you should be able to reach your goal. make sure that voice is life size, not overblown or miniturized.

Peter
I have the Summits 41" from the wall behind them and 29" from the side wall. I have the system 2-channal set up only with the amp and cdp close to the floor on short stands slightly behind speakers.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Russ,

I have found, over the many years I have owned ML's, that reflection / absorption may not be identical for each side of the room regardless of measurements.

Try judicious (very small) amounts of toe in or toe out on the right speaker and / or move the right speaker an 1/8th to a 1/4" or so further out into the room.

Also, verify vertical azimuth and bass knob adjustments. They should be "exactly" the same.

Yes, those ML's are quite sensitive and will reveal the minutia in set up discrepancies.

Also, I forgot to mention I had the chance to meet Peter at RMAF. Wonderful encounter and a true gentleman and professional.

GG

 

[mopar04]

Another potentially easier way (depending on how the access to your gear is) would be to switch the left and right RCAs or speaker wires. If the recording is biased to one side for vocals, you'll hear is off center to the right instead of the left.

 

[bzr]

I had a question on the Summit X center Image mainly on vocals. I have both speakers set up equal distance from front wall and side walls with the same tow-in on both set up by the flashlight, and measered equal. Room 12wX16LX8H. With room treatment.

When I play music with vocals it seems that the voice is slightly on the left of center. I know that all music may not be recorded dead center on the vocals. Is there anythig set-up wise I can do or check to get the center image dead center.

Equipment-
Summit X-NEW
Pass X250.5 New
Wadia 381 New

Thanks

I had the exact same thing with mine & it was a placement issue. At the time I also was thinking it could be a break-in related issue that didn't help either. I haven't got mine toed in very much at all but then I have them in a corner of a square room with a stairwell & a hallway running off of it. Experimenting with placement worked for me, taking into account the sonics of the room.

 

[beek]

Hola. If you are thinking in a problem, feed a mono signal to both channels... then everything should be at the center image. If your system does not have a mono option, with a simple Y connector, feed only L or R channel at both input channels of your amplifier, and listen center image. If the image moves from the center to one side, then that channel is louder than the other. Swap the input cables at the amp, then listen again, if the center image moves to the other channel, then, it is coming from the preamp, or a bad cable. If remains the same, then swap the speaker amplifier cables, and listen. If the problem remains, you have a faulty Summit X. Happy listening,
Roberto.

you read my mind Roberto

 

[roberto]

Thinking again about it, a faulty balanced cable will make -3dB in reduction of the signal. Change or swap the input cables and listen if the problem remains the same. Happy listening.

 

[Russb]

Thanks for the help I checked all my equipment and everything is fine. I am going to play around with placement.

 

[edwinr]

Having off center imaging is not unique to ML. I owned a pair of ATC SCM50ASL speakers for a while, and I had the same problem. In fact it seemed as though the right speaker channel had generally greater output than the left. I tried everything. It was eventually solved by simply pulling the speakers further out from the wall...:duh:

 

[Gordon Gray]

Agreed. See Post No. 5.

 

[Russb]

Hi Everybody
I am still messing around with Summit X placement. I wanted to ask how far apart would the speakers be placed in a room 12X17X8 17 being the long wall, speakers on the short. I just wanted to get other opions

 

[Gordon Gray]

Russ,

Generally speaking, the distance between the centerlines of the panel should not exceed the distance from the panel centerline to your listening seat(s).

Think equilateral triangle. Two corners are the panels and the "point" is your listening chair.

GG

 

[Victor]

Russ,
My Vantages have always manifested an imbalance of ~3db in favour of the left. After a long chat with Jim P, formerly of Martin Logan, I eventually bit the bullet and boosted the amp output in the RH channel by a corresponding amount. Even then the room has issues and I have to tweak for the first half hour of each session before I'm happy.
The sad fact is that MLs can be mismatched. If the tolerance goes in opposite directions on each then you are just unlucky.

Another thing to try is tightening the panel bolts. Seriously! I found this improved the panel output by 2-3db (especially the bass!!!) They had loosened by a good 50 or 60 degrees of turn after a long while. The only problem was, when I tightened the other speaker the imbalance returned
Hope things improve soon, as I'm sure it will..........Victor.

 

[Victor]

...BTW Please note the chat with JP was about 3 years ago when he was still with the Company....